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PCB Artwork & Photo Conversions Hack Chat Transcript

A event log for PCB Artwork and Photo Conversions

We'll be talking about how to do PCB artwork with Andrew Sowa

ShaynaShayna 04/20/2018 at 20:090 Comments

Shayna : PCB Artwork Hack Chat starting soon, everybody!

Shayna : Post your questions in the discussion on this page :) https://hackaday.io/event/112119-pcb-artwork-and-photo-conversions

Boian Mitov : Just was looking at some of my really old PCB art... :-D

Boian Mitov : http://www.retrotronics.info/modules/news/article.php?storyid=14&lang=english

RETROTRONICS

RETROTRONICS - FDC 3.2 - Floppy disc controller for Pravetz 8D - New in the collection - NEWS

FDC 3.2 - Floppy disc controller for Pravetz 8D Read this on Retrotronics

Andrew Sowa : Hey

Shayna : Hey @Andrew Sowa !

Shayna : Thanks for joining us for this Hack Chat today

Shayna : We'll get started in around 10 mins or so

Stephen Tranovich : Wahoo, I'm looking forward to this one!

Shayna : Before we get rolling, would you like to tell us a little about yourself @Andrew Sowa ?

Andrew Sowa : I'm a electrical engineer from Chicago and for my day job I make LED light fixtures. I am a contributor to the Supply Frame Hardware blog and

Andrew Sowa : got start with PCB art stuff by making the Benchoff Nickel after a long night on Kicad layout for a crowdfunding project I was working on

Andrew Sowa : Since then I have evolved that into my signature style for lack of a better phrase of turning photos into pcbs.

Shayna : awesome!

Shayna : Mind if we get started on the questions?

Andrew Sowa : I'm ready

Shayna : Please also feel free to share any images/projects you'd like folks to take a look at, too 

Andrew Sowa : 

Shayna : I think I know that person :)

Andrew Sowa : This is my latest project. It was requested that the hair needs to be pink so I have been working with halftones to make the contrast while also back lighting the bare FR4

ðeshipu : where does the pink come from?

Shayna : Very cool

Shayna : Alright, first up from @zakqwy : "I do a good bit of Inkscape --> KiCad graphics work and am by and large happy with the process. However, a lot of my custom graphics also function as electrical elements, usually ground planes or touch sensors. Any thoughts on making custom footprints that KiCad actually recognizes as such for routing and fill purposes? Right now wiring graphic bits up to a circuit is a process that can't take advantage of KiCad's excellent on-the-fly DRC bits, making the technique prone to errors."

Andrew Sowa : 

Andrew Sowa : I just figured out how to do this while still keeping the DRC working this morning

zakqwy : ah awesome! share your secrets!

zakqwy : i would love push 'n shove to route around my copper graphics

Andrew Sowa : In Kicad 4.0 you could only do specific shapes for footprints so any polygon gets put in but not processed properly from a DRC perspective. There is also an isssue where the edge cuts also don't get caught with DRC

WooDWorkeR : i like when you can integrate your artwork witht he electrical connections

Andrew Sowa : with 5.0 the edge cut thing is fixed but they also added arbitrary shapes for footprints

zakqwy : can i still import 'em via bitmap2component from an *.svg file (or elsewhere)? or do i have to make the footprint itself in kicad?

Andrew Sowa : You can use the bitmap converter to get all the points you need to put into the text file and use this new formatting to get it to process correctly. This is a little hard to explain in text but I'll try my best

eliot : What's the edge cut thing?

Andrew Sowa : https://github.com/Junes-PhD/kicad_arbitrary_pad_example

GITHUB

Junes-PhD/kicad_arbitrary_pad_example

kicad_arbitrary_pad_example - Using bitmap convert to create complex shaped footprints Read this on GitHub

WooDWorkeR : there is a distorion pedal design in which a guy used the map of old east/west berlin and used the wall and subway lines as actual traces and even got so far that he used actuall border crossings for places to put diodes etc

WooDWorkeR : and iirc the airports where signal in and out

WooDWorkeR : http://oree.storijapan.net/praxis/distortion/

STORIJAPAN

Ore.e Ref. - Distortion Sounds of Labor for share Read this on Storijapan

Andrew Sowa : 

Shayna : ha!

zakqwy : good to know it's supported in kicad 5 -- i haven't taken the plunge yet but will investigate. thanks!

Andrew Sowa : I'll get to edge cuts in a sec. There is a new panel when you make a custom footprint and that lets you manual add points. The inject button doesn't work but it's much easier to manage the text file anyways

Andrew Sowa :


Andrew Sowa : This the new format. Basically you need to replace all those XY points with what shape you want. To get those points you can use the bitmap tool or an svg converter.

Andrew Sowa : https://github.com/mtl/svg2mod

GITHUB

mtl/svg2mod

svg2mod - Convert Inkscape SVG drawings to KiCad footprint modules Read this on GitHub

Andrew Sowa : https://github.com/badgeek/svg2shenzhen-next

GITHUB

badgeek/svg2shenzhen-next

svg2shenzhen-next - Inkscape extension for exporting drawing into Kicad PCB Read this on GitHub

zakqwy : ah cool. yeah, it looks like i could use a standard kicad_mod file and replace "fp_poly" with "gr_poly"

zakqwy:


Andrew Sowa : It's not super easy to transfer but easy enough and likely scriptable. Just figured it out so haven't optimized yet

zakqwy : sweet. i'll give it a whirl. thanks @Andrew Sowa !

Andrew Sowa : Those two links are svg to kicad footprint converters. I haven't tried the second one yet but I used the first one for the OSHWA logos

eliot : ^ ah hadn't found svg2shenzhen. Tried converting SVG to kicad in inkscape this week for the first time and... oof

Andrew Sowa : I have broke these converters before so my process is a little different right now.

Shayna : When you're ready -- next question is from @ðeshipu : "A lot of the PCB art discussion seems to focus on importing images into programs that clearly are not designed to do this kind of thing. Why not just use Fritzing and be done with it in 3 minutes?"

Andrew Sowa : I don't use Fritzing because I never learned it and I also want to integrate graphics into working pcbs

Andrew Sowa : It's likely a perfectly good solution but I just haven't tried it yet. I also know Eagle has some features and adding more. Nick Poole just posted a program that's suppose to help with eagle files that I haven't tried yet

Andrew Sowa : Jumping back to the edge cuts thing. Before kicad wouldn't be aware of where your board outline was so you could run a trace into mid-air. That is now fixed and I no longer have to add dummy wires to keep me from getting to close to the edge.

zakqwy : even with imported *.dwg edge cuts?

eliot : What about BoldPort's PCBmodE?

Andrew Sowa : It should work with imported dwgs but I haven't tried that yet. I often make outline in fusion 360 because it has better snapping and import. The only issue is that you can get tiny gaps that you have to fill between curves

Andrew Sowa : I tried to get PCBmodE but couldn't get it to work on my windows machine. Haven't invested the time to learn it yet but BoldPort does amazing work with it and I would say it's better than the stuff I do lol

Robert Mateja : Can I ask about anyone experience with osh and raster images? I want to push to the limit silk screen.What is max DPI for it? Lokking at my old order I assume 1000DPI is achievable due to photorestist limits:

Robert Mateja : https://ibb.co/iepYBn

IMGBB.COM

m1

Image m1 hosted in imgbb.com Read this on imgbb.com

Andrew Sowa : The render on the well can only do I believe 400 dpi, rush is 400 or 500 dpi, and standard two week is 1000dpi

zakqwy : @Robert Mateja I usually do raster stuff at 500 dpi, keeping in mind minimum line weights

oshpark : Yes, for our standard service, we use LPI silkscreen which is 1,000 DPI

zakqwy : dang standard > rush in terms of resolution?

zakqwy : TIL

oshpark : the process takes too long for quicker turn, so our "Super Swift" uses inkjet which is 500 DPI.

oshpark : we list 500 DPI in our spec as a result

oshpark : http://docs.oshpark.com/troubleshooting/import-bmp/

OSHPARK

OSH Park Docs ~ Troubleshooting ~ Including bitmap logos on silkscreen

Our process is not properly equipped to handle features of that size, so we cannot guarantee that they'll be printed correctly on the final board. The maximum DPI we can correctly process is 500 DPI, corresponding to pixels of 2 mil or larger.

Read this on Oshpark

oshpark : for anyone that wants to make sure they get 1,000 DPI with LPI, just email support@oshpark.com and we can make sure of that

Robert Mateja : Ok, much thanks for confirmation!

Shayna : Next up is from @Eric : "I'd like to learn how in KiCAD to invert the silkscreen so that my component references mask the silkscreen. I have my PCB ready and am just about to try applying more of an artistic flare to the functional pieces I have now. Also hoping to learn about production issues for example are there any issues applying silkscreen to bare copper? What else should I know?"

Andrew Sowa : I am a little confused about inversion I believe they mean want the text to be the color of the solder mask? I is bad to put silkscreen on copper but I believe most fabs will clean that up for you. @oshpark could probably better answer that

Andrew Sowa : I don't know of an easy way on inverted text. My quick though is to treat it as an image but that is a pain to change all the time. There maybe a plugin for that somewhere but I don't know of one.

Andrew Sowa : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JZ428Gxnrc&t=2s&ab_channel=AndrewSowa

YOUTUBE ANDREW SOWA

oshpark : awesome!

Shayna : awwww

Andrew Sowa : this is generally my workflow. which may help some people better understand what I am referencing

Shayna : very cool

Andrew Sowa : Prepping for this I realized that I need to make more video better it is hard to explain some of this with static images

Shayna : Workflow question from @ðeshipu : "Why not reverse the workflow? Do the routing first in your favorite CAD program, export the gerbers, and then edit them in a graphics program to add the artwork? Wouldn't that give us more control over the result? Are there graphics programs that can read gerber files? Would it be hard to create an import/export plugin for Inkscape or GIMP?"

Andrew Sowa : I'm more of a hardware person so I am not the person to ask to make a plugin so I don't know the difficulty. I know gerber has a specific format that is a semi-loose standard. It should be theoretical possible but I haven't had the need to work this way.

Eric : 

Eric : If in this board, I wanted to include a component with text (being an area not screened in white) Can I easily mask that? Was this area created as a fill but on the silkscreen layer?

Andrew Sowa : plus it's nice to have the DRC which makes native formats benefitial

Andrew Sowa : The way that fill is made right now there is not an way to do it in kicad. There is a way to generate fill zone with odd shapes but I don't think that will work will silk screen layer.

Andrew Sowa3:37 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Lc91iaH6w&ab_channel=ContextualElectronics

YOUTUBE CONTEXTUAL ELECTRONICS

Andrew Sowa : see that video until I actually make my own

Eric : Thanks, I've watched that one. Shout out to Chris for some awesome videos!

Eric : Thanks to you too of course for being here today. truly appreciate the time and effort.

Shayna : So, we're soon coming up on the last bit of the questions in the comments: https://hackaday.io/event/112119-pcb-artwork-and-photo-conversions

Shayna : If you want to add more to the list before then, please feel free to do so in the meantime. Otherwise, we can open up the discussion after the last question for as long as @Andrew Sowa is able to hang out :)

Shayna : @ðeshipu asks: "Do you know of any PCB pixel art?"

Andrew Sowa : I am not sure if they mean 8-bit style stuff or halftones

Andrew Sowa : my favorite half tone one is the flower Drew often shares which I don't have a picture on hand.

Andrew Sowa : 


Yann Guidon / YGDES : nice !

eliot : https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2010/07/defcon_ninja_eecue_003_badge_back.jpg

WIRED

Andrew Sowa : halftone example is in the topright. That is not my board but a good example of the grey scale look you can get. I am actually having trouble generating that file well in Kicad and may have to try some other programs.

oshpark : Let me find the flower

Andrew Sowa : 


Yann Guidon / YGDES:-) better than my old attempts :

Andrew Sowa : The lady ada project is going to rely on halftones to create the hair shape with back lighting but bitmap import hates all those small circles. Illustrator even complains when I vectorize it.

oshpark : http://blog.oshpark.com/2016/09/30/recap-of-pdx-maker-week-open-house/

OSH PARK FUSTINI

Recap of PDX Maker Week open house

Thanks to everyone that visited us during our PDX Maker Week open house! We always enjoy meeting our customers and showing projects built by our team. Here's more information on the Drawdio for those that got our PCB giveaway: Adafruit Tutorial Parts List Laen displayed his new Dazzle project with Neopixel matrix controlled by a Teensy:...

Read this on OSH Park

oshpark : 


oshpark : https://plus.google.com/photos/100779964808096572793/album/6333017586389944753/6333018299769760674

GOOGLE

Album - Google+ Read this on Google

Shayna : beautiful

ZiggyInKC : now that's sexy right there

Robert Mateja : wow, @oshpark any chance of dimensions of this piece?

oshpark : @Robert Mateja looking it up... it was about 3 inch by 4 inch

Andrew Sowa : The basis for most of my stuff is image trace in inkscape or illustrator. It does most of the hard work then I need to go in and create contrast. In this one I trace it to 16 colors and manual change things until i got back to 6

Andrew Sowa https://oshpark.com/projects/IO45CK3f/

OSHPARK

OSH Park ~ Read this on Oshpark

Andrew Sowa : 

Shayna : Thank you so much @Andrew Sowa !

Shayna : That's it for the questions on the comment page, but I hope you can stick around with us for a little longer

Shayna : this is a fun topic :)

Yann Guidon / YGDES : I love these works !

Sophi Kravitz : Thank you Andrew!

Andrew Sowa : this recolor artwork tools is the main reason I use illustrator but all my early stuff was done in inkscape.

ReanimationXP : mfw i open the ss then try to click the cancel button

Andrew Sowa :The best other tip I have that I mention briefly is that complex board outlines are usually better drawn in other programs.

zakqwy : One question re: outlines -- I make most of mine in Inkscape and it's a bit annoying to have to 'segmentize' bezier curves. Is that still required in KiCad 5?

Andrew Sowa : yes

zakqwy : ah well. Still a great program.

Andrew Sowa : eagle is working on it but dev said is not top priority

Andrew Sowa : 

Andrew Sowa : This one required arc nears arcs and generally annoying to make in Kicad , but with Fusion for example its easily done to specific parameters if you need an exact shape or parametric shape.

Andrew Sowa : This is drifting in practical things but that could also be a sketch from a mechical engineer making the enclosure.

Andrew Sowa : The last thing I have from my notes is the different colors between two and four layer boards. These use different fiberglass materials and have a different color

Andrew Sowa :

Andrew Sowa : Top right is a four layer and bottom center is two layer with same design files

zakqwy : Do you ever use interior layers to add shading?

Andrew Sowa : The bottom one is beat up because we arced 10KV into during super conference

oshpark : yes, our 4 layer is Isola FR408 which is white.

oshpark : versus the normal tan color of FR-4 in 2 layer boards

Andrew Sowa : I have not yet. I was working on making Carl Sagans golden record but I never finished that. I wanted to make gaps in the copper/enig to look like the track lines and add the center art in middle layers

zakqwy : I made the map part. Looks good in ENIG.

Andrew Sowa : There will be a 4 layer board at super conference but that more of a joke piece and a secret for now

ReanimationXP : just joined so sorry if you already mentioned - how did you achieve the layered hair effect on Benchoff? is that just mask with/without copper?

Andrew Sowa : mask on bare FR4 vs mask on copper. The copper lightens it up

ReanimationXP : gotcha, figured. thanks! and was great grabbing a beer with you at con :)

Andrew Sowa : http://andrewsowa.com/blog/2017/3/19/creating-the-benchoff-nickel

ANDREW SOWA ANDREW SOWA

Creating the Benchoff Nickel

Idea I thought of making the Benchoff nickel after I saw Brian's Hackaday,io profile. He has a hi-res image of the center a Benchoff Buck which is well suited to being converted to a PCB. There is only a few colors and they have sharp edges. Bitmap2Component in Ki

Read this on Andrew Sowa

ReanimationXP : sweet ty

Andrew Sowa : I have been busy for the last 2-3 years with various crowdfunding campaigns so I never had time to document all this as much as I want too so since I'm pretty sure I'm done with crowdfunding I have more time to dump all this information

Andrew Sowa : I guess i should mention I will be talking about this at crowd supply's teardown next month.

oshpark : Yeah!

zakqwy : looking forward to it!

oshpark : @zakqwy will you be at Teardown in Portland?

oshpark : https://www.crowdsupply.com/teardown/portland-2018

CROWD SUPPLY

Teardown: Portland 2018

A party for hacking, discovering, and sharing hardware

Read this on Crowd Supply

zakqwy : yah, found a cheap flight!

oshpark : awesome!!

Andrew Sowa : I post most often to twitter @junesphd My website, youtube, github are all linked above.

oshpark : re: 4 layer FR-408, here is a photo that shows it well

oshparkhttp://blog.oshpark.com/2018/03/02/pcb-projects-with-awesome-artwork/

PCB projects with awesome artwork

Here's a list of some project with great PCB artwork: Pure art boards Full Panel PCB Painting Hand-drawn PCB Artwork Making Braille Signs out of PCBs PCB lapel pin Full panel PCB sign by Andrew Sowa Lumen Electronic Jewelry Creating the Benchoff Nickel PCB Art With 4 Layer Boards PCB Paintings Facebook group PCB...

Read this on OSH Park

Andrew Sowa : I will be doing a talk and workshop where you make your own pcb art

oshpark : We're excited for @Andrew Sowa talk and workshop!

Shayna : cool!

oshpark : re: 4 layer art, https://tekdemo.github.io/2014/09/18/PCB-art-with-4-layer-boards.html

oshpark : 

oshpark : (this is the render for comparision: https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/IO45CK3f)

Andrew Sowa : And read the Supply Frame blog is you like making stuff proffesionally. It's good and I need to write more stuff for it.

Andrew Sowa : https://medium.com/supplyframe-hardware

MEDIUM

Supplyframe Hardware - Medium

Discussing all things manufacturing and hardware, prototypical or not.

Read this on Medium

oshpark : @Andrew Sowa thanks for all the insights!

Shayna : Thanks again to @Andrew Sowa and all of you for participating in the Hack Chat today :)

oshpark : thank you @Andrew Sowa !

zakqwy : thanks for the chat @Andrew Sowa ! this was quite helpful!

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