LutetiumHellllooo!
Very excited to be here and talk to everyone
I'm excited too, not least for the bunch of money I'm likely to want to spend getting my machine shop up and running after this.
It's an expensive hobby, that's for sure. Cheaper than racing though, so there's that. 😏
or aviation
At least machine tools don't $2000 in tires and brakes every three weeks
Once you've invested in the tools, is there much ongoing cost other than materials?
Looks like we can get started. Welcome to the Hack Chat, everyone. Today we welcome Quinn Dunki to talk about the home machine shop, plus anything else she feels like telling us about. Thanks for joining us today, Quinn.
My pleasure! Hello internet!
Hi Quinn
Thanks, a lathe page fan.
Aloha
There are so many of you here!
So Dan, what's the format here- can people just starting asking away?
:-) Hi everybody
Yep, free form questions. And it can get a little asynchronous, so people might ask questions and then ask them again.
Where do you like to get your stock for projects lately?
Okay, let me start with Josh, who asked "Once you've invested in the tools, is there much ongoing cost other than materials?"
Pretty informal. Maybe you can start with a little about your background?
also, don't worry about answering all questions, there are more of us than you and there is a limit of how fast a human can type
I need to see your keyboard
They say you should expect to spend as much on your first machine tool as you do for tooling, and I think that's accurate. The machine tools themselves are honestly a surprisingly small part of a machine shop. You also need bandsaws, grinders, drill presses, etc, and the tooling never seems to end. All the jigs, vices, blocks, parallels, etc that you need. HOWEVER- those costs are all very gradual over time. You can start with a lathe a few basic tooling items
Thanks Quinn!
As for stock, I have a local steel yard that I like a lot, and also I'm using eBay heavily these days. Flat rate USPS shipping is amazing. I had a 20lb steel bar delivered for free in an envelope. Apologies to everyone else's mail that day- it got obliterated for sure.
The envelope was six Tyvek molecules when it got to me, but the steel bar was fine because it's a freaking steel bar.
Dont forget trying to get drops. (left overs in the steel yard to small to sale)
What made you switch from mostly electronics projects to mostly machining projects?
It's funny what will mail. I got a complete exhaust system mailed to me once. Just put a priority mail sticker on it and it showed up like that.
Yah, metal suppliers will have off-cuts, and the same for local machine shops. They throw away more stock than I use
My son-in-law works at a steel supplier. I'm a happy lad.
Denver area: ALRECO in Henderson
Dillon, I still a lot of both, but machining has captured my attention lately because it's extremely technical and everything you make is so darn pretty when you're done.
I need to buy tooling for my lathe In my grandfathers shop, he always used high speed steel and custom ground what he needed. Can you recommend a set of insert style tools?
I heard a bank was once built by mailing individual bricks. The stamps were just on the brick itself. Because that was cheaper than shipping all the bricks by freight.
Insert tooling is tough- it's a huge subject- kind of a specialty all it's own, and carbide has a learning curve very different from HSS tooling. It depends a lot how big the lathe is
bricks are OT, ruins the cutters
@Quinn Dunk
I think This Old Tony did a couple of videos on the pros and cons of carbide and HSS
Oops. @Quinn Dunki Do you prefer to do everything by hand? Do you have any CAM hardware?
Mine is an old 14 1/2" South Bend ,,, and by the way I need parts for it if I can ask that here.
I didn't think of This Old Tony thanks!
He did- I think it was a great summary. He lands about where I do on it- carbide is not as good for beginners. Expensive and harder to learn, and odds are your hobbyist machine isn't a good fit for it. Carbide is engineered for production- big machines that need to take 1/4" passes on big machines to make money.
Cutter geometry is related to HP of the machine and material. SB 14.5 is an odd ball size that might be difficut to find. Stick with HSS on that machine
Josh, yes, all manual machining here. I may experiment with CNC at some point, but it turns the hobby into a software problem, which is not what I like about it. I want to make things with my hands, not my keyboard.
Perhaps a CNC and some really large wheels to turn? :D
I always break my carbide cut off tools on my little 9x14 lathe. Any tips?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsFFWYo8ugw
@Quinn Dunki what special practices do you use to hold e.g. <= 1 mil tolerances on mini-mill/lathe?
I always recommend beginners start with the pre-ground HSS tool bit sets from Grizzly or LittleMachineShop. Lets you skip the learning curve of grinding HSS, and focus on learning feeds/speeds, etc. Learning grinding later when you need it.
re grinding cutters: Frank Hoose http://mini-lathe.com
Darryl, mainly don't ask for more than the machine can give. Last night I was turning tool steel, and I did 20 thou passes with a sharp nose tool. Adam Booth would die of boredom doing that, but my machine is small and so are it's bearings. Anything more is gonna chatter.
Learn the rigidity limits of the machine, and work within them
My videos on Tail Support and Chatter cover the topic of getting the most out of a small/cheap machine, I think
grinding cutters: http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Tool_grinding/tool_grinding.htm
I wrote a blog post on grinding tool bits also- honestly I think most videos way overcomplicate it. There are a couple of tricks that take out all the hard parts.
Apologies if I'm missing anyone's questions- feel free to ask again. Things scroll off quickly hear.
link your blog, by all means!
Machine Tech Vlog also did a great series on grinding HSS, when you decide to jump in:
http://quinndunki.com/blondihacks/?p=3147
Blondihacks
An easy method to get started. High Speed Steel is wonderful stuff. With all the talk these days about carbide insert tooling, and online sellers practically giving away brazed carbide tools, it's easy to forget why High Speed Steel has been the staple of machining for 107 years.
My Lathe Skills series covers rigidity on small machines (the aforementioned Chatter and Tail Support videos in particular)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLY67-4BrEae9Ad91LPRIhcLJM9fO-HJyN
Great blog
Thank you! ☺️
@Quinn Dunki - any regrets about buying the Precision Matthews lathe now that you have some time on the machine?
For the Veronica fans out there- she's coming back REAL SOON
I learned machining after I'd started mentoring a high-school robotics team. I taught them programming and electronics, they taught me machining. And now I have reasonable access to a shop and tools. Win-win!
Dan- not all. The Precision Matthews lathe and mill have both been great. The only thing I don't care for is the power feed on the mill. It's sorta poop. Better than turning the cranks like a chump, but not great.
What's your day job (if you care to say) and what keeps you motivated to work on all of these side projects?
You REALLY get what you pay for with these import machine tools. China builds them to whatever spec the Americans ask for, so that Precision Matthews machine really is $500 than the Grizzly one, even though they look the same except for color.
I'm sorta torn between PM and Grizzly. I've always been a Grizzly guy for woodshop tools, and I'm close enough to Bellingham that I can pick up tools and avoid the shipping charge.
I'm currently Technical Director at Scopely, and I've been a software engineer in gaming my whole career. The side projects balance that out. Getting in the shop and working with my hands is my therapy!
Grizzly makes some great stuff, don't get me wrong. I have their mid-range drill press, and it's a beast!
It's always worth looking at used American Iron, too. They often need some work, but if you have the space and the means to move them, they are astonishingly well made, for the most part.
@Quinn Dunki could you define and expand on "need some work" as used above
Some of the import stuff is definitely good value for money, but I always keep my eye open for industrial tooling. I have South Bend 13 and Bridgeport. I had to do some work on for sure
Speaking of power feeds. I bought one of the, I think Shars, models for my Bridgeport ... a few 100 dollars. Was thinking of CNC so I looked to see If anyone had done a teardown of one of these units in an attempt to use it as a CNC drive. Do you know if anyone has tried that?
Wow, looking at them side by side they're practically the same. The PM comes with a quick-change post, though, so I think it gets the nod there.
Well, there may be bed wear that you need to learn to compensate for. Bearings may need replacing, gibs may need replacing, that sort of thing. The challenge is that restoring old machine tools requires... machine tools. I wouldn't buy an old classic for your first one unless you know it's ready to run, and not a barn project.
Dan, in small machines, look for power-cross feed also. VERY few have it, and that's what pushed me to PM. They were the only one in the 10x22 size range that had it, and I love it.
Here is a 3 part series on "work"
Also, some the Grizzlies don't have locks on all three slides, which is weird. You can add them though- just drill and tap a cap screw
Yep, PM it is. Sorry, Grizzly
For Precision Matthews, email Matt in sales and tell him I sent you. He's great. Was very helpful when I was setting mine up
There's one Grizzly mill that I almost went for, because it has the column hand wheel in the base at the front, like a knee mill would. That's genius because you don't have to reach up and over to crank the head up and down all the time. I wish more bench top mills had that
Said we could ask again
Speaking of power feeds. I bought one of the, I think Shars, models for my Bridgeport ... a few 100 dollars. Was thinking of CNC so I looked to see If anyone had done a teardown of one of these units in an attempt to use it as a CNC drive. Do you know if anyone has tried that?
You can generally boot strap old iron back into good shape. I did that with both my lathe and mill. A mill I would say is less problematic than a lathe. If a lathe bed is really worn its super hard for beginner to sort that out. A mill generally only needs new bearings in the quill plus some cleanup.
Good question! I don't know. I suspect those drives wouldn't be a good choice for CNC though, because they're built smoothness in one direction rather than precision. They have flywheels and dog clutches in them, that sort of thing. I think you're better off with big steppers right on the leadscrews
or servos
What’s your favorite source for metrology stuff, anything from squares and scribes to gage blocks, etc
I know mine is ebay and craigslist
Well they're cheep and already hooked up ... was going to interface my DRO with it somehow.
If it's something I know I'm going to use a lot and want top quality, I buy Mitutoyo new, or Starrett on eBay. For stuff I'm less sure I need, or may not use a lot, I buy knock-off stuff from LittleMachineShop. For cutters, I go for mid-range stuff from MSCDirect, mostly
Buy once, cry once
Starrett is sorta the SnapOn of machine shop tools. Crazy expensive, crazy good, and the eBay secondary market is thriving. Good deals can be had if you're willing to sit on your watchlists for a while.
My "regular" tools are all Snap-On, and I've never paid more that 35% of retail for basically new ones. Some have some random long-dead mechanic's name engraved on them.
Meanwhile, every hand tool I've ever bought from Home Depot is now broken.
Matches my experiences, save for hitting up garage sales in Athol, Mass. :)
Quality tools are basically timeless. Auctions, garage sales, etc. They practically give away high end tools in big boxes. You have to know what you're looking at, and be willing to clean 'em up a bit, is all. Some apprentice marks are also likely.
What do you use a protective lubricant film (stop rust) on you tooling. I have been using boeshield with good results.
@SN:101124102 WD40 is cheap and ubiquitous and comes in many forms
Yah, I like Boeshield as well. Hooooly cow is it expensive, but luckily you don't need much. The tools I use a lot stay oily from normal use, but I use Boeshield on, for example, the drill press column.
I've had boeshield on my SB lathe (that I stripped) for almost 5 years. No rust yet
Still trying what color to paint it
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