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Hack Chat Transcript, Part 1

A event log for Quick-Turn PCB Fab Hack Chat

Fast, right, or cheap - pick two

LutetiumLutetium 07/31/2019 at 20:090 Comments

Mihir Shah11:59 AM
Hi everyone, here is the link to the livestream:

I'll be answering questions live on there ( and typing up summary's here... at the same time lol)

We'll be going live in about a minute here

OK all, let's get started. Let's welcome Mihir from Royal Circuits to talk about quick-turn fabrication. We'll be doing this a little differently as Mihir points out, so you'll want to tune into the livestream now.

morgan12:00 PM
whoot whoot!

Chris Sullivan12:00 PM
(y)

morgan12:00 PM
all good

Mike12:00 PM
yup

Sebastian Weber12:00 PM
sound good

Tim K12:00 PM
Sounds good

morgan12:00 PM
yup

jamesonbeebe12:00 PM
yep

We see and hear

Everyone remember that we're asking questions here, and Mihir will respond on the livestream

So ask away...

Sebastian Weber12:02 PM
What is the quickest turn you have ever done?

morgan12:03 PM
oooof

Chris Sullivan12:04 PM
Whats the smallest order (volume) you will handle?

Christopher Bero12:04 PM
Woah

What drives the decision for a company to demand a quick-turn? Are these prototypes or something?

jamesonbeebe12:04 PM
What's your scale of production? (i.e. What if everyone at DEFCON orders and expects 3 day turn time)

Ah, OK - prototypes mostly

morgan12:05 PM
Oh! it's not too late for!

morgan12:05 PM
hi!

Hi Milan!

Sebastian Weber12:06 PM
On average how many jobs can you process in a day throughout all your facilities?

Newcomers will want to go to the livestream -

jamesonbeebe12:06 PM
Ahhh bueno pues. Muchas gracias!

jamesonbeebe12:07 PM
That must be a super streamlined supply-chain

Mike12:07 PM
Do you guys prefer ODB++ or Gerbers?

Sebastian Weber12:08 PM
Can you guys do box build/final assembly and testing?

Mihir Shah12:09 PM

PriorityPCB.com

PRIORITYPCB

PriorityPCB

Looking to generate revenue by offering PCB Manufacturing services? Integrate with PriorityPCB to seamlessly plug into our factories and offer fabrication, assembly, and kitting services. Help your customers iterate faster!

Read this on Prioritypcb

hayden12:09 PM
max board layer possible? and does board layer affect turn around time?

Paul Stoffregen12:10 PM
I'm thinking of using a Maxim chip which only comes in a wafer scale package, 36 balls at 0.4mm pitch. Any guidance? Or should I avoid that sort of part for a small volume?

Tim K12:11 PM
For moving towards high density designs, what's a good technology progression with respect to cost? 8mil vias -> 6 layer -> laser vias -> blind / buried -> ???

Chris Sullivan12:11 PM
So you do prototypes - do you make end products for clients? (non prototype). If so - Name a well known product.

Tim K12:13 PM
I guess, where are the big price jumps

Tim K12:14 PM
How do laser vias compare with say, 6 mil drills, or jumping to 6 to 8 layers perhaps?

David Sean12:15 PM
you mentioned paste deposition, would it be possible to add extra paste to accommodate the wicking action of a via in a pad?

Tim K12:15 PM
Thanks for your answer! Good info.

hayden12:16 PM
Thank-you for the answer, answered my question!

Paste printer - so, sort of an inkjet printer for solder paste? How fine can that apply?

Mihir Shah12:17 PM
my700

Mihir Shah12:17 PM
paste printer

David12:18 PM
Speaking of processing files from a wide variety of PCB tools/programs: do you prefer the paste and soldermask openings on surface mount pads to be 1:1 aspect to the pad, or grown automatically in the gerber files sent to you?

David12:19 PM
Thanks!

Sebastian Weber12:19 PM
How do you compare/compete with China?

Mike12:20 PM
What are the most common reasons that a job might go on hold?

Tim K12:20 PM
In that same vein of David's question -- what about doing (for example) USB trace impedance? If I don't know your stack up it's pretty time consuming to re-run the traces in KiCad, etc. Can you adjust the traces from the gerbers easily? What's the best way to avoid time wasting?

Sebastian Weber12:20 PM
What kind of fab technology do you support that you consider leading edge?

Chris Sullivan12:21 PM
Do you have a presence in Europe, do you have European customers?

Tim K12:24 PM
Great answer, really appreciate your time!

Maave joined  the room.12:27 PM

Chris Sullivan12:27 PM
cctHub - which country are they in

Sebastian Weber12:28 PM
Can you source and purchase my BoM?

Reminder to tune into the livestream -

So logistics must be a huge problem for you. How do you make sure the right stuff is in the right place at the right time?

Sebastian Weber12:30 PM
Is that custom software?

Sebastian Weber12:32 PM
The API you mentioned, how would i go about integrating that into my software

Mihir Shah12:32 PM

prioritypcb.com

PRIORITYPCB

PriorityPCB

Looking to generate revenue by offering PCB Manufacturing services? Integrate with PriorityPCB to seamlessly plug into our factories and offer fabrication, assembly, and kitting services. Help your customers iterate faster!

Read this on Prioritypcb

Mihir Shah12:34 PM

PCBLayout.com

PCBLAYOUT.COM

PCBLayout.com

We now offer parts library management! Footprints, Symbols, and 3D Models, all maintained via version control at a fixed rate. Click below to learn more and get started. Click the button below to begin an online quote with instant pricing.

Read this on PCBLayout.com

Mihir Shah12:34 PM

DebuggAR.com

DEBUGGAR

Augmented Reality application For Debugging PCBs

Using the camera on your iPhone or iPad, DebuggAR allows you to identify information on your board previously invisible to the naked eye. Hover your phone above your PCB to see all of your design's detail and information - from signal traces to component location and pinouts.

Read this on Debuggar

morgan12:34 PM
cooooool

morgan12:35 PM
I tihnk I saw this somewhere the other day....

Sebastian Weber12:36 PM
So basically structuring around a one stop shop?

Sebastian Weber12:38 PM
Do you do Rigid Flex?

David12:38 PM
Say I don't need something in 3 days but perhaps 3 weeks: do you handle lower-cost, long(er) turn projects too?

So I saw an interesting PCB once:

https://hackaday.com/2016/12/16/massive-20-oz-copper-pcb-enables-electric-racing/

Can you do things like that?

Mike12:42 PM
Any resources you would recommend for learning more about how to build cost-effective boards?

Stephen Legge12:44 PM
Any issues dealing with or shipping to customers in Canada?

Mike12:44 PM
Cool, thanks

Paul Stoffregen12:44 PM
do you sometimes get boards that take excessive e-test time (flying probes)

Maave12:45 PM
do you ever see pcb art coming through?

Hossein Lachini joined  the room.12:47 PM

morgan12:47 PM
cool

Maave12:47 PM
nice

morgan12:47 PM
I still have time!

morgan12:47 PM
what's the last day I could send DefCon stuff to you?

morgan12:47 PM
assembly

morgan12:47 PM
my flight in Thur

morgan12:47 PM
30

Mihir Shah12:47 PM
mihir@royalcircuits.com

morgan12:48 PM
boards are inbound, I have parts

morgan12:48 PM
50

morgan12:48 PM
yup

morgan12:48 PM
cool!

morgan12:48 PM
30 unique, 0 through, ~90 total

morgan12:48 PM
next Thur

morgan12:49 PM
this is great customer service

Sebastian Weber12:49 PM
Do you guys wear slacks there?

morgan12:49 PM
heh

morgan12:49 PM
what are slacks?

You mentioned a solder resist printer before. How does that differ from traditional resist application? Actually, what is traditional application method?

Sebastian Weber12:50 PM
What if i have a problem with my board?

AH, ok - sorry

Maave12:52 PM
I have a USB-C connector (molex 105444) that connects to the edge of the board, pins on both sides. Is that any more difficult to assemble?

Arsenijs12:52 PM
I always wondered how these two-sides-at-once Type-C plugs are soldered!

Sebastian Weber12:53 PM
Where are you guys located?

Sebastian Weber12:53 PM
Can i come see your shop?

We ususally go an hour

Chris Sullivan12:55 PM
Whats your OS of choice?

If you're running all these machines in three shifts, when do you schedule downtime for maintenance?

We won't hold it against you

Chris Sullivan12:56 PM
OS on Desktop ? and machines in the fab

Sebastian Weber12:57 PM
I might hold it against you lol

Mark J Hughes joined  the room.12:57 PM

cpchrome joined  the room.12:57 PM

Arsenijs12:57 PM
was that a goddamn Slack noise? made me check

Mark J Hughes12:58 PM
Two questions

1) What technical aritlces could we write that you guys would like to read

cpchrome12:58 PM
Does the debugg application work?

Mark J Hughes12:58 PM
2) Where's my Pizza?

Mark J Hughes12:58 PM
That's a QUESTION FOR THE AUDIENCE

Mark J Hughes12:59 PM
(I've been watching for a while -- just couldn't log into my Hackaday) You're doing well. I like it.

Mihir Shah12:59 PM

debuggar.com

DEBUGGAR

Augmented Reality application For Debugging PCBs

Using the camera on your iPhone or iPad, DebuggAR allows you to identify information on your board previously invisible to the naked eye. Hover your phone above your PCB to see all of your design's detail and information - from signal traces to component location and pinouts.

Read this on Debuggar

cpchrome1:00 PM
How will you make it like JIRA? I'm not a fan of JIRA right now

cpchrome1:01 PM
signing up btw

Crazy idea - debuggar running on a digital scope...

cpchrome1:02 PM
Will it be able to scope in as much as digital scopes are able to? Are you going to interface with the scope or just use some camera?

Wicked

cpchrome1:02 PM
Micro

Maave1:03 PM
pcb project management + kicad + git would be sick

morgan1:03 PM
Great chat (wow this format!)! I need lunch in my face, will drop you a line about assembly later today!

cpchrome1:04 PM
Tony Stark using Jarvis to debug PCBs...

morgan1:04 PM
yup

morgan1:04 PM
cheers

morgan1:04 PM
Oakland, fo

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