Lutetium
Hi everyone, welcome to the Hack Chat. Bit of a departure today, but one I think you'll all enjoy. Seth Molson is a Playback Designer on TV and movie productions, and he creates the control panels and interfaces seen in sci-fi and fantasy productions. We'll be talking about "Designing Sci-FI" today.
Welcome Seth! So, how did you get into Playback Design?
Thanks Dan, Hi everyone!
I kind of fell into this position during an internship at a VFX studio. I was interning on the TV show Stargate Universe and found my skills to be most useful in the playback department designing the UI for the ship
So coming from a graphics design background? Or VFX?
I studied mostly design with a bit of VFX and originally wanted to get into VFX
so I knew after effects and illustrator, and a little bit of lightwave 3d and Maya
9 years later, I am still designing UI for film and I love it :)
how do you approach a project ? how do you begin your inspiration etc ?
Are the interfaces tactiles, or for show only?
It starts with a script. Usually there are key points written into an episode which highlight the use of a computer terminal or a screen on a spaceship. Then I have a meeting with the director, production designer, producer and VFX of the show to talk about how things should look
after that meeting I get right into designing. Sometimes references are provided from other shows or movies but a lot of the time I am asked to create something unique
in some cases, the interfaces are indeed touch interactive so actors can change the display and interact. Most cases, the screens are being triggered off set by an operator and the actor is just pretending
Always wondered what a production designer does. Is he or she kind of the boss of the look and feel of everything?
Yes, the production designer leads the art department and designs the look of each set, artwork, logos, and the look and feel of everything
What programs do you use to create the graphics out of interest? Are they vector based, so they scale, or..?
I started off using photoshop, but switched to illustrator so everything could scale. I usually program the interactive elements in adobe animate so the graphics stay vector and can scale
for larger, complex sequences I use after effects
Cool. It always seemed to me that the people running the show we're just like, "Gimme something futuristic" and didn't care if the end result was technically plausible. Has that changed lately as directors and designers - and audiences - have gotten more tech-savvy?
Most productions I work on today ask for realistic designs. Even if let's say, we are on a different planet reading a device attached to a space suit, it still must look like something we would use in real life
every now and then you get a show that just wants something futuristic and they don't really care how plausible it is. for Example, Continuum the series, they had a lot of time travel and wanted the most advanced looking UI I could come up with
How is the work-life balance?
@seth molson That's definitely the quality of your work that I think stands out the most. When I see an interface you've done, it's not just random numbers or glyphs flying around. It looks like something that would actually be practical.
When a UI isn't quite looking as slick as you'd like, is there something simple you like to add that usually does the trick?
@Alex Kade while working, it's very intense! work life balance is 95% work, including most weekends. But then I tend to get a few months off in between shows so it balances itself out
You worked on Continuum too? I loved that show
Favorite project and why?
Do you work on-set or at a separate studio? Or maybe from home?
@jess.t.moody I don't really have a trick for it. Just have to try and redesign it if time allows for it. Sometimes the producers love a design I am not too happy with so there's a weird balance to is.
@neotechni yes! continuum was fun to work on :)
@jess.t.moody my favorite project is a tie between Lost in Space and Stargate Universe. Lost in space is very technical and I accomplished a lot of new things, where as stargate was my first show and I was basically a kid figuring out the industry
(I don't have a question, but this is really interesting to read, thanks Seth!)
@Dan Maloney I currently work from home but do make trips to set to get inspiration and to see how my designs are being implimented
@QuantumStar Thanks! :)
Here's a nice shot of the Jupiter 2 from Lost In Space which shows all the controls and screens
That is pretty.
Laser etched acrylic or post-prod?
Good work on Lost In Space, BTW. Really enjoyed the first season, and part of that was getting immersed in the universe it created. I really felt like there was a believable story behind the whole "families in space" thing, and the details were a big part of that.
that is so cool! do you ever get to visit?
So if there's a screen on the Jupiter 2, are you ultimately the one who's responsible for doing the imagery? I think I remember seeing in your portfolio that you even did stuff like the door control panels. Is that to make sure all the various systems have a cohesive look?
@Nicolas Tremblay Laser etched for most shots, then swapped out for a clear version for post production when needed.
I love picking out things like the ABS pipes used for ducts at the top. At first it seems like, "Oh, they just picked that up at Home Depot", but then it's like, "Well, what would they use to build air ducts for a spaceship?"
Is there ever any overlap with real products/software or are film/TV UIs just too CPU intensive? :P
heh, not much different from exhibit building in that regard
@Dan Maloney the show did as much as they could to make it believable for everyone. One of the coolest things was the chariot vehicles. They are real vehicles and were really driven.
OK, maybe not something as flammable and heavy as ABS, but I'm just glad it's not the 60s anymore and everything has to be silver.
Tell me you got to drive that...
https://www.rainmeter.net/https://github.com/GitSquared/edex-ui
@Alex Kade I do get to visit when the production is shooting in my city
Oops, sorry
@jess.t.moody computers have come a long way from what they used to be so most of the graphics can be run on set smoothly, even if they are very large files. We also use VJ software now like Resolume which helps quite a bit
@Dan Maloney I wish! I did get to go inside it though because I had 5 interactive screens inside
One thing I've noticed in Sci-Fi Ship Designs as far as Movies and TV Shows is that the Humans always leaned toward a square sterile aesthetic, while the Aliens usually emulated organic life as a Design Aesthetic.
Next time, say you need to check the screens for vibrations!
What's the VJ software let you do out of interest? (I vaguely recall that term, but don't know much about it)
I kinda dig the original too. Although there was obviously no place for it in the tiny Jupiter
Kind of like Marines vs. Zerg in Starcraft.
@Tom Nardi Yes, I was responsible for every screen, including the door panels. Each door on the ship had a different UI such as crew quarters, airlocks, security doors, hangar doors. All were touch interactive
Oh wow. I've only seen bits and pieces of the original show. Didn't even realize the rovers in the Netflix show were referencing ones from the 60s
@Matthew Chapdelaine that's a good point! I guess it's a quick way to differentiate between the two?
Do the actors actually interact with the UI? In that case it wouldn't just be a premade animation right? What software do you use for that?
@anfractuosity the VJ software lets us run large numbers of screens from a single source computer. Instead of having a computer at each station, we set up a master computer and run the entire set using Resolume . The last set I designed for had about 80 screens!
@seth molson I suppose it would be akin to referencing the definition of autism by pointing at "Big Bang Theory"
80 screens! that's crazy heh
@Dan Maloney the original is badass! look at that dish on top!
80 is probably more than star trek
Do you usually design the UI before or after the film is shot (i.e. basing the UI on the actors miming the controls vs having them control/adapt to the UI)?
Built on a Sno-Cat chassis, and it actually worked too.
@jess.t.moody sometimes the actors do interact with the ui such as when they are using tablets or small devices attached to space suits. I design an app using adobe animate and publish it for whichever device is being used.
do you find that knowing the ins and outs of designing now ruins the immersion for you when watching movies?
If Humans were to adopt an Organic Aesthetic, I would be imagining Tolkienesque Hobbitish Computer Interfaces. A warp drive would be like a Palantir in a furnace.
@jess.t.moody I design for live playback and also for post production. The directors favor live playback because the actors will have something real to act to instead of looking at a greenscreen. There's sometimes the case where that isn't possible, such as holograms. One day they will be real!
I remember reading that on the set of Alien, they had the bridge panels rigged up so throwing a switch on one person's panel would light up stuff on somebody else's, which created a "workflow" for the actors and made it look like they were really doing something. Though I suppose today it's easier to do that kind of thing in post
@Alex Kade I find i concentrate too much on UI when watching movies. It is a bit annoying haha
@Matthew Chapdelaine hah! that would be great :)
@Matthew Chapdelaine I think that humans generally have too many individualistic tendencies to create organic interfaces. In Alien and other such movies, the other species is usually some sort of hivemind or soldier/queen type, so it makes sense that they can all plug into a bio-interface and have it react the same. I'm not sure that humans would adapt to the same thing. The closest thing I can think of is Pacific Rim, but even in that they run into problems with one person's memories/feelings overriding another's.
@Tom Nardi They still do stuff like that today! using wireless triggers
How about the other way around: Do you ever use a real-world device and think, "Dang, this UI sucks. I could do a better job"?
@Dan Maloney real work UI has come pretty far. There aren't many I can think of right now besides some small annoyances with android/apple UI
Where do you think our real technology and this industry will be in 10 years? 50?
Do you think the screens nowadays are somewhat prophetic?
@seth molson A Starship with an exterior hull resembling the old stone walls that cross the land in rural areas., lit by hundreds of fireplaces, with the whole thing wrapped in breathable earth air and a force field to contain it.
What do you think of "The Expanse"? Their tech representations seem pretty good to my eye. The way the handle tech in general seems plausible.
@Alex Kade Good point.
in The Expanse, depressurizing the ship before going into a fight is one of my favorite details
@Alex Kade I think we take a lot of what we see in movies and try to implement it in real life eventually. bendable screens, see through displays, star trek stuff :) I think it is shaping what we try to push with technology and in 50 years we will have real holograms everywhere
@Matthew Chapdelaine I would live on that starship :)
@Dan Maloney I have only seen a couple episodes of the expanse but it looked really good! Still need to get into it.
Here's a design I made for Dark Matter. Docking the ship
@seth molson I've been lurking in this chat, I just wanted to say thanks for doing this - I really liked Lost in Space, SG:U, and Dark Matter!
I found it hard to get into the Expanse at first, but once I did I really liked it.
Looks like dark themes will own the future. As they should...
@Kyle Isom Thanks for having me!
@Dan Maloney I have recently changed all my real life UI to dark theme. Gmail, Phone... everything that has the option
Loved, Dark Matter. Kinda suck it got cancelled.
Yeah, we are getting up to the one hour mark, which means we need to let Seth get back to work. Feel free to stick around and answer more questions if you want to. But I just want to say thanks for a really cool chat - this has been a real treat. And thanks to @Tom Nardi for suggesting I ask Seth to host - good call!
@Nicolas Tremblay it is a shame. a lot of these shows get canceled before they even get a chance to tell a story.
Thanks everyone for coming by with great questions. Don't forget that next week we'll have Dana Lewis talking about the artificial pancreas she built:
https://hackaday.io/event/166942-hacking-diabetes-hack-chat
Hacking Diabetes Hack Chat
Dana Lewis joins us for the Hack Chat on Wednesday, October 16, 2019 at noon PDT. Time zones got you down? Here's a handy time converter! When your child is newly diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes (T1D), everyone is quick to point out, "It's a great time to be a diabetic."
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