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Hack Chat Transcript, Part 2

A event log for Software Defined Radio Hack Chat

What's in your dongle?

Dan MaloneyDan Maloney 09/18/2019 at 20:050 Comments

BSA Secure12:31 PM
@RichardCollins I'm playing with Viasat Surfbeam 2 modems and their TRIA's (Outdoor units) that supports Input (RX) Frequency 18.3 to 20.2 GHz

Output (TX) Frequency 28.1 to 30.0 GHz. I'm getting them on various none-ebay portals for really cheap. Drop me DM and I will share with you my wiki. Or join Signals Everywhere discord where I'm pulling out my RF knowledge.

IRC12:31 PM
[Arsenijs] Discord? Got an invite link?

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:31 PM
@Chris Capobianco You don't need an LNB, that range is covered by most RTLs, I'd recommend a helix antenna on a dish

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:32 PM
@IRC https://signalseverywhere.com/discord

Absolutely agree. But that dog won't hunt around here - people here have a bit of a blindspot when it comes to law enforcement. Even RadioReference.com will ban you now if you complain about encryption. Kinda nutty.

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:32 PM
yeah encryption is a very hot button topic

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:32 PM
I hear there are a few groups planning on breaking it and presenting at Defcon, we'll see if they manage but if so it'll change the landscape

James Finch12:32 PM
Totally need to monitor the monitors for sure. Let's see... representative government is sworn with oaths and like President Lincoln stated... for the people and by the people.

RichardCollins12:33 PM
@BSA Secure Thanks I will contact you after this

James Finch12:33 PM
More than nutty, seems like a blatant compounding and concealing.

Sheridan-Tech12:33 PM
This is probably a dumb question, but are these chats logged? Can I just load this URL later and grab all the chats from this page?

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:34 PM
@Sheridan-Tech I believe @dan

Maave12:34 PM
there will be a transcript posted after

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:34 PM
welp that didnt work :p

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:34 PM
Yes it'll have a transcript

Chris Capobianco12:34 PM
@Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV Thanks, Much appreciated!

@Sheridan-Tech - I post transcripts right after the chat.

Sheridan-Tech12:34 PM
Ok. At this link? Or found elsewhere?

I'll post a link when it's live.

BSA Secure12:34 PM
Just keep in mind, that by observing encrypted traffic you can know of stream is voice transmission , drone-high-bandwidth video footage or small telemetry. Its like listening train that is passing by - you can know if its empty or is full of heavy elephants (even with oracle padding)


https://hackaday.io/event/167395-software-defined-radio-hack-chat/log/168928-hack-chat-transcript-part-1

HACKADAY

Hack Chat Transcript, Part 1 | Details | Hackaday.io

TBD

Read this on Hackaday

BSA Secure12:35 PM
may be not know but rather assume

James Finch12:35 PM
My opinion is we need to hack relevant U.S. Jurisdiction (State, District, Tribe, Territorial and Nation) Constitutional and Statutory Law into the Public School's from kindergarten on up ASAP. Post 1960's change in being able to be admitted into the bar with a J.D. was a root cause from my observations.

Sheridan-Tech12:35 PM
thank you

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:35 PM
Very good point @BSA Secure that's true of most digital modulations.

Once you have listened for a while you get an ear for things and you can quickly determin what type of modulation it is and often if it contains data or not

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:37 PM
Looking back at transmit capable SDRs I'm pretty excited about DVB-S for digital amateur television

Max-Felix Müller12:37 PM
@Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV I started listening to some FM stations using an RTL SDR but I'm not sure really where to go from there...

James Finch12:37 PM
Prior to the 1960's I think most had a basic Ten Commandment fundamentals to counter claim and defend Rights... and like Yale was the last to admit into the bar with a Bachelors of Law.

Maave12:37 PM
Any recommendations for a software/security person? IOT is the punching bag. If I get an SDR I want to try metasploit's hardware bridge

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:37 PM
There is a lot of good software support for them now and you can transmit low bandwidth digital tv with a PlutoSDR or limeSDR.. heck even a Raspi on it's own can do it

Sheridan-Tech12:37 PM
When using my RTL-SDR on ham frequencies I hear some unusual signals. Does anyone know where I can find a list or page with samples that I can compare to, to help me identify what I'm hearing? For instance if it is just interference, the signal needs to be attenuated, some type of side band, digitial, or it is encrypted.

James Finch12:38 PM
OK... back to finding links for simplifying installs...

BSA Secure12:38 PM
@James Finch legal stuff is different topic - I'm from EU and here listening on ADS-B traffic is illegal. There are laws that generally forbid you to decrypt eg P25 traffic. Putting OpenBTS is illegal in US and EU and people are doing this. Just dont f-ck with the legit service

RichardCollins12:38 PM
There are a number of algorithms to pull the human signal from the radio data. Like "AM" "FM" "USB" "LSB" and so forth. It is scattered in the software, but perhaps should be set aside to investigate and test as a separate discipline.

So "Demodulation" algorithm suite that can be plugged into any SDR software?

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:38 PM
@Max-Felix Müller You'll want to install virtual audio cables and try to decode some stuff. there are decoders for almost anything you run into

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:39 PM
@Maave You'll be interested in things like RTL443 https://github.com/merbanan/rtl_433 and URH https://github.com/jopohl/urh

James Finch12:39 PM
https://www.sigidwiki.com/wiki/Signal_Identification_Guide for visual references. I've not seen a compile app to perform a pattern recognition processing and output ranking of most likely signal yet.

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:39 PM
These are great for discovering telemetry data and tearing apart modulation types

Maave12:39 PM
sweet, thanks

Max-Felix Müller12:39 PM
Thank you

Just wrote up a hack that used rtl_433...

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:40 PM
Nice! @Dan Maloney Not sure if I saw it or not, can you post the link?

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:40 PM
I still need to do a video on it

James Finch12:40 PM
@BSA Secure No kidding... still Pro Se defense from my perspective unless Deliverance style juris is the best defense... and even then get's them ew ew'ing differently.

James Finch12:41 PM
You noted a great pro se defense tactic/strategy.


https://hackaday.com/2019/09/14/cheap-sensors-and-an-sdr-monitor-conditions-in-this-filament-drying-farm/

HACKADAY DAN MALONEY

Cheap Sensors And An SDR Monitor Conditions In This Filament Drying Farm

We don't know where [Scott M. Baker] calls home, but it must be a pretty humid place indeed. After all, he has invested quite a bit in fancy vacuum storage containers to keep his 3D-printer filament dry, with the result being this sensor-laden filament drying farm.

Read this on Hackaday

Forgot which one it was. He ended up using 315 MHz for his sensors but rtl_433 still worked for that band.

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:42 PM
You've gotta love how cheap these little modules are

Sheridan-Tech12:42 PM
Awesome that will be helpful. Sorry for inundating everyone with questions. I am just new to this particular portion of wireles

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:42 PM
I've been considering reversing a 315 mhz RC car board so I can use an SDR to control an RC car

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:42 PM
@Sheridan-Tech That's what this is all about! Fire away, I'm here to answer questions the best I can

Sheridan-Tech12:43 PM
:)

RichardCollins12:43 PM
I often see "Donate" and "Support" and "patreon" on software and hardware sites in this SDR community. But I am NOT going to put my credit card info on a flybynight site. Is there any thought to having better standards for things like fund raising, crowd funding, individual support? I see lots of things I want to enourage, but there is not a "safe" way to do that. Thoughts? Suggestions?

dmoisan joined  the room.12:43 PM

James Finch12:43 PM
@RichardCollins I'm still working my way back in Reddit posts since searches aren't coming up with what I'm looking for. I did find these references to consider for procedures development in GRC:

https://wiki.gnuradio.org/index.php/Guided_Tutorial_GRC (GRC Tutorial Wiki)

https://www.instructables.com/id/RTL-SDR-FM-radio-receiver-with-GNU-Radio-Companion/ (Instructable for FM Radio)

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:44 PM
@RichardCollins it all depends on what you consider safe I suppose. My donate button my website uses PayPal which I trust to do right by consumers and Patreon has never done me wrong. Some accept cryptocurrency but that's not something I generally play with.

anfractuosity12:44 PM
I'm curious if some day with ADCs > 1Gsps, we might eventually see direct sampling SDRs, with the ability to captures masses of bandwidth instantaneously?

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:45 PM
@anfractuosity I could see that, the problem then would be how to get that data onto your computer, USB probably wouldn't be the interface of choice at that point but rather ethernet which would drive up cost

anfractuosity12:45 PM
oh yeah heh, might need pcie

Seems like the extra cost could be worth it though

Joyce12:46 PM
Always, the issue is not about acquisition

Mike Walters12:46 PM
@anfractuosity they already exist, they're just in "call for a quote" price territory

RichardCollins12:46 PM
I just bought a 5.85 GHz drone camera receiver just look at. VERY nice looking hardware, but I have not a clue how to get the signal from it into my SDRs. I am a mathematical statistician not a digital engineer. Is there any way for ALL these hints and clues and methods to be kept where it accessible to everyone - all the time?

Richard Collins, The Internet Foundation

Max-Felix Müller12:46 PM
@anfractuosity I guess it's not just the ADC but also further down the line. FPGAs, USB, your CPU which has to handle all those samples at some point in time...

Joyce12:46 PM
but how do you get the data into your system

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:46 PM
Being able to capture lots of bandwidth is nice but I still prefer to use the least I can, it's part of why I use an RTL-SDR when I have an Airspy R2 sitting there. They both work well but the more bandwidth you're looking at the more likely you'll lose your signal in all that nosie

James Finch12:46 PM
@RichardCollins et.al. Found the reference for the Windows 10 GRC install:

https://www.reddit.com/r/GNURadio/comments/ao79a5/grc_on_windows_7_pro/

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:46 PM
noise*

Joyce12:46 PM
at such high speed

Joyce12:46 PM
(also hiiii! :D )

RichardCollins12:46 PM
The ethernet technology is much more mature and less costly than USB. Steep learning curve but worth it.

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:46 PM
@RichardCollins Not many SDRs go that high but the PlutoSDR can as well as the HackRF

Mike Walters12:46 PM
https://www.pervices.com/shop/ - 1GHz BW for only $73k :p

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:47 PM
You can technically use an RX5808 as a down converter too

anfractuosity12:47 PM
haha cheers @Mike Walters , bit out of my price range

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:47 PM
to me it's less about bandwidth and more about frequency range

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:48 PM
ofc with the ranges most SDRs cover today you can down convert almost anything else you might want/need

James Finch12:48 PM
Sampling rate also.

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:49 PM
What would be nice is if I could find a 4 or 5 ghz oscillator and build a down converter for 5ghz

rjhreha joined  the room.12:49 PM

James Finch12:49 PM
Seems Ethernet when I looked at last for being most cost effective. Fiber optic interfaces would be awesome, though cost more.

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:49 PM
Sample rates are important but generally 2.8msps is plenty imo

Joyce12:49 PM
I'm sure you can, just don't know the cost :P

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:50 PM
I have SDRs that'll do 10-20 and even 30+ msps but limited to a USB 2.0 interface

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:50 PM
Generally the most I'll use is 20msps since I can look at an entire trunking system at once

James Finch12:50 PM
I guess I'm thinking in more a real or near real time wide frequency range... and to obtain a more accurate widest frequency range.

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:50 PM
but with two RTLs I can track it all the same so it's nice to have but my focus is on rx sensitivity

RichardCollins12:50 PM
@Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV You are talking about the difference between looking at a source at a particular center frequency, and looking over a range of frequencies. I am setting up to scan the full range of each of my SDRs continously for decades. It is to map the electromagnetic "weather" of the earth at fine detail. It requires global networks of SDRs continuously recording, analyzing, comparing, calibrating and working together. We are just at the very beginnings.

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:51 PM
interesting concept

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:51 PM
Like I said it's all about individual needs, for something like that I could see where that would be beneficial

anfractuosity12:51 PM
You mentioned earlier about using a filter, when transmitting, can you get a little box, that you can easily change the filter properties, for different bandwidths/ frequencies?

Yeah, love to see a writeup, even if you're still just planning

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:52 PM
for me and many who are just playing around generally it's about having the capability tune to whatever freq they want and decode or manipulate it... or it's about tx capability

Joyce12:52 PM
you'd rather do that in DSP @anfractuosity

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:52 PM
@anfractuosity not that I've seen, those I've seen people build them for HF

Joyce12:52 PM
which is what makes SDR so powerful :P

anfractuosity12:52 PM
im referring to transmission though, to filter harmonics @Joyce

Joyce12:53 PM
oh haha

Signals Everywhere/KR0SIV12:53 PM
Hi @Joyce !

RichardCollins12:53 PM
I am looking mainly at the microHertz to kiloHertz range. The signals are mixed and have many human interferences. So mapping the earth's electromagnetic field is just so I can tease out the low frequency interference with the

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