Dan Maloney
You mentioned https://www.celeramotion.com/microe/products/linear-encoders/. Which ones are you using the Nano / Optiras?
@Prof. Jim Brenner - We had Zach Tong on the Hack Chat not too long ago, he's interested in DIY AFM
@mh-nexus If you click and hold the scroll bar on the right you can drag it up
https://hackaday.io/event/179336-microscopy-hack-chat
Microscopy Hack Chat
Zachary Tong will host the Hack Chat on Wednesday, June 23 at noon Pacific. Time zones got you down? Try our handy time zone converter. There was a time when electronics was very much a hobby that existed in the macroscopic world.
I saw that you referenced a company selling your AFM's. Only $3 K! At that price, I think I'll buy one as a backup. I assume you get a royalty.
Might want to check that out, and his YT channel is pretty cool too
https://www.stromlinet-nano.org/
Stromlinet Nano - Nanoscience Made Easy
@Dan Maloney thanks! ;p
@Prof. Jim Brenner yes, I get 10% my institute get 90% XDDDDD
I went to the site, but I hadn't gotten to the pricing yet. Would you like the Stromlinet Nano to be featured in my textbook?
I think you can ask them....also your text book can cite the Nature nanotechnology article
https://www.nature.com/articles/nnano.2015.95
Creativity unleashed - Nature Nanotechnology
Hands-on challenges such as building a low-cost atomic force microscope for schools can teach more than standard lessons, says François Grey. When I arrived as a visiting professor at Tsinghua University in 2008, one of my first tasks was to set up an international summer school that would expose foreign students to the many exciting advances being made in China in the field of nanotechnology, and to encourage them to collaborate with their Chinese counterparts on practical projects.
@Edwin Hwu Maybe someone asked the question already but I couldnt find a mention of this in the chat. What medical applications do you see, since the devices will be too bulky to work inside the human body.
(Hiya, I'm Breaking Taps :) )
That's cool you're the tech behind the stromlinet system! Didn't realize they had licensed that from you
@mh-nexus I think electrode implant for brain machine interface can be a good application for nanopositioner ;)
@polyfractal did you have one? ;p
I don't, but I looked at them for a whlie when thinking about AFM systems (either commercially or DIY)
I made enough money off of my companies that I don't need to beg for $ any more. I will definitely ask about the nature nanotech article and the Stromlinet Nano site. I have been in charge of a nanotech minor since 2004. We have been using the Nanosurfs, originally available via Nanoscience Instruments. You may want to browse some of the folders at https://fit.instructure.com/courses/265730/files for training videos.
This AFM use piezo buzzers for high resolution scanning, super low cost ;3
@polyfractal Nice YouTube channel, look forward to checking out your content later tonight
😊 thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/c/EdwinHwuHacks4Science/videos
Edwin Hwu
Associate Professor at IDUN Research Group. Hardware hacking as an unorthodox way of research. Co-Founder of BluSense Diagnostics.
This is my channel ;p
Is the Espresso AFM a different design?
Thanks @Dan Maloney. I have used Hackaday's site, but this is the first time I had time for chats.
do you think you will be able to publish/open-source the rotary dseign any time soon? That looks super intersting to me...
Good stuff on your Hackaday.io page, too:
would it be possible to use the self mixing of a laser diode for low cost feedback for a nano or submicron positioner? I imagine at least the drifting of the frequency will be an issue? Seems that it could be a very low cost solution.
Espresso AFM use the same mechanism like DIY AFM...only the tip alignment is done by rotary piezo motor ;p
@Edwin Hwu +1 Subscribers ;)
Hi sorry for joining late :(
How much does simulation play a role or would make sense in your opinion? Had some nice results with open source software (openCFS https://www.opencfs.org/ ).
@Merijn Otterman that's possible...we can use interal photodiode of laser diode to read interference signal
@lageos thanks! I am not sure...maybe stick slip simulation? :)
@Hash thanks! :D
kinda related question, how much variability is there between different piezo chips? Not a problem if/when an encoder is added, but running open loop do they have fairly similar step size?
@Edwin Hwu Are you aware of something regarding nanorobotics or microrobotics combined with imaging that could be doable outside of a highly specialized uni lab?
@polyfractal the forward and backward positioning has slightly difference...because piezo expansion and contraction have different speed...
@mh-nexus I think microrobits has higher chance....because nano one needs SEM or other microscopy to see :)
Hm interesting. I wonder if it could be preloaded slightly in one direction to counteract that? Might be too hard given the size of motion here. Encoder would definitely be easier :)
@polyfractal smart! Acutally I did put spring preload...but I didn't mention in the paper because I would like to KISS (Keep it simple and stupid) :D
Welp, that's our hour! It was a fast one -- lots of great discussion. I want to thank Edwin for stopping by today, I really enjoyed this Chat. And thanks to all of you out there for the great questions and all the discussion. I think we might have got some good collaborations started today!
ahhh, makes sense!
Yes, @Merijn Otterman and @Edwin Hwu. You can use the internal photodiode of laser diode to read the interference signal. To make sure I am lined up in X and Y, when I do nanopositioning, I raise my stage up one step in Z, then to make sure that I am dead set on my X and Y origins, I shine lasers at a bullseye on the other sides of the stage and then use the piezoelectric motors to correct for any X-Y positioning errors. Long term, the goal of this is to put together a nanoprecise bioprinter, and the goal is to make sure that the registry is perfect.
@Edwin Hwu Awesome, I got hear in time! You have the DIY AFM on Instructable and two projects on hackaday.io. Any plans for more?
@Edwin Hwu Regarding stick slip: First yes that would be nice but tricky, secondly did you measure repeatability on the steps on your actuator design? What about wear on the (nickel?) plating on the magnet.
Here's hoping the discussion continues. Feel free to use Hackaday.io to keep things going
I'll wait a bit before I pull a transcript -- looks like there's still some chatting to do ;-)
The stick slip is an issue @lageos. This is why I use the laser interferometry and the piezoelectric motors as a correction. At each new level in Z, you just tell the G code to do an X-Y calibration.
@Edwin Hwu Any thoughts on making a spectrometer using COTS parts that's cost effective?
@James Finch I can try to put hacked Drone + Spy camer+Qi power for lab on a disc system if I have time ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHWr2xoppQ
@Edwin Hwu I've wondering about interferometry based maybe somehow with HD actuator.
@James Finch I guess low cost spy camera can get you wireless spectrum meter ;p
Is there a link to the poster mentioned in the video?
I can put the poster here ;)
For a really low cost spectrometer, try the one from Gaudi Labs. https://gaudishop.ch/ I use his spectrometer and his PocketPCR.
Gotta run, thanks for answering questions @Edwin Hwu! And thanks for the paper, very cool work. I'll give you a ping on twitter once I have some working prototypes of the stage, definitely interested in adding some of those encoders for closed-loop positioning :)
MicroTAS2020_Poster Edwin M1-180.e.pdf
8 MB
Bye Zach! Thanks for stopping by!
@polyfractal sure :)
@Prof. Jim Brenner Thanks fo
Thanks for the poster!
... for clarification.
Ah yep could use that cell culture monitoring unit for a side project we have with one of the local medical research institutes
@lageos I didn't really measure the nikel thickness....since they didn't stop working ;p
@placethesundontshine exactly, it's not easy to implement flow model for cell culture...but this cell culture on disc can do it in a elegant way
the project was on high throughput cell culture analysis for drug discovery
The cell culture monitoring unit's microscope is quite good. I am putting together a 36-bioreactor tissue engineering test bed. We had put together a modified endoscope for each reactor with a blue-blocking coating (similar to Tac glasses or BluBlocker sunglasses) to cut down on the glare. Being able to view the cells in vivo means that you will no longer have to dye them and take them to an external microscope for validation. That is a big an accomplishment as the AFM work. Very well done.
Recently I am writing a HardwareX article, to make lab on disc for everyone
@Prof. Jim Brenner Thanks :D I like this kind of fun development
Did you release a control bored/code for controlling the HOP-15XX units at all?
Linear CCD vs 2/4K webcam vs spycam and having thoughts of sensitivity and refresh rates. Though kind of a more narrow time very dynamic situation vs static sample.
@placethesundontshine HOP-15xx? I didn't use this head before...
The WiFi spy camera is similar to a project one of the groups in my Basics of Making class this summer is doing. https://fit.instructure.com/courses/604044 is a "quasi-syllabus" for the course. I am adding a lot of content to make the management of the projects go more smoothly.
@James Finch do you mean lab on disc imaging?
@Prof. Jim Brenner is that link your teaching material? cool :)
Is that 15 separate wells you have on the cell culture disk, and you take a picture as each well goes past?
you mentioned earlier that you were using the 7 axis controller for manipulating graphene. Was that a successful approach?
@Edwin Hwu More-so just a thought and not specific application other than possibly standalone or microscope. I need to study the lab on disc imaging more as I'm only familiar with your CD/DVD/BluRay parts use and DIY AFM when you presented initially. I need to read into your work more... wow... you've really been jamming on the nanopositioning I've seen recently.
A start on my tissue engineering test bed work is at this link: https://fit.instructure.com/files/45147969/download?download_frd=1 and this one: https://fit.instructure.com/files/45147629/download?download_frd=1. Progress on my nanopositioning system are at https://fit.instructure.com/files/45607615/download?download_frd=1. Yes, that was my teaching material.
@placethesundontshine I made the 7axes manipulator, but my colleague didn't get his project funded :(
@James Finch haha...that's part of my "research advtisement" ;p
Ah, I mean 16 wells. Could it be scaled to the usual cell culture sizes - 96, higher?
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