Sophi Kravitzwelcome @Roger Thornton !
Jarrett says:
must be a coincidence
must be
ðeshipu says:
industrial espionage
baldengineer says:
Pattern recognition.
ðeshipu says:
complex monomers
baldengineer says:
lol
ðeshipu says:
never really finished it, the gibberish got on my nerves
Thomas Shaddack says:
yay espionage!
Sophi: welcome to the Raspberry Pi Hack Chat! My reminder email just went out, s we're going to start at exactly.... 6 minutes after the hour
Please put all qs and comments here: https://hackaday.io/event/69365-raspberry-pi-chat
Stephen says:
Hey all! Excited for the Pi chat!
XabiLopez says:
Hello everyone!
Shayna says:
Hey y'all
baldengineer says:
before we get started, slightly off topic but related. does any know how to control the Undervoltage icon directly? (I want to be able to turn it on.)
ðeshipu says:
icon?
ðeshipu says:
like a holy painting?
ðeshipu says:
or is there some context to your question that you forgot to mention? some kind of software maybe?
Evan Juras says:
im excited for the Raspberry Pi hack chat! yay! thanks for sending out the reminder email, Sophi :)
baldengineer says:3:04 PM
deshipu the pi displays several status icons, which I understand are driven directly from the GPU. one is undervoltage, monitoring the 5 volt rail
anfractuosity says:3:04 PM
status icons?
baldengineer says:3:04 PM
all references I find are people asking how to disable it or understand it.
ðeshipu says:3:04 PM
@baldengineer it only displays a text console for me
ted says:3:04 PM
so ironically there's ADC on the board, just not in the pins :)
baldengineer says:3:05 PM
okay, nevermind. i don't want to distract before we start. search "pi lightning icon" to see what I mean
Liam Kennedy says:3:05 PM
Who here has ordered (even received) their first Pi 3B+? (I received shipping confirmation from Newark Element14 yesterday)
DrivenMadz says:3:05 PM
Packing frantically packing for shoeshoe trip to Mt Rainer :) still got it chromcasted to the TV :) Happy Friday everyone :)
srivishnu piratla
im still looking where to buy a 3B+
Sophi: Happy Friday! :) welcome to the Raspberry Pi Hack Chat w @Roger Thornton
Roger Thornton
Hello all, good to be here/
Liam Kennedy
Try element14. Good price ($35) unlike CanaKit that is up to $44 + $13 shipping
I'm sure more stragglers will show up soon, but we can get started. Roger- tell us who you are and what you work on at Raspberry Pi
Liam Kennedy
Ummm.. Sophi... so we have to JOIN that other event thing to post questions there?
Roger Thornton
I am one of the hardware engineers at Raspberry Pi, where I've worked for nearly three years. I am the designer for Pi Zero W and the very recently launched Pi3+
ðeshipu
love the pi zero w! great job!
Liam Kennedy
Thanks for being here Roger... So you are based in the Cambridge (UK) offices?
baldengineer
Nice work!
Boian Mitov
Hello everyone :-)
Roger Thornton
Yes, I am based (and live) in Cambridge
Liam Kennedy
Cool (p.s. I grew up in Haverhill.. gaaaahhh :-)
hey @Liam Kennedy !
Liam Kennedy
Hi @Sophi Kravitz back!!
Liam Kennedy
Awesome work on the 3+ (I will now always refer to it as 3+ .. and save the extra typing of 3B+)
Roger Thornton
Thank you, it was a long journey but very happy with end product
how long was the design cycle?
Liam Kennedy
What was the "trickiest" part of the design for you?
Roger Thornton
We started work on it early Jan 2017, there was a couple of prototypes, one was basically Pi3 with the new southbridge and the second was close to what we have now
Roger Thornton
Hardest part was the radios, 5GHz is a massive jump in board layout work and test work
billybob
I wonder if the "camera flash reset" think is fixed.
Liam Kennedy
That's such a great addition. I can't tell you how many support calls / emails I have to deal with (I Can't see my WiFi listed)
sfrias1
Hi all. Raspberry pi event likes for me.
Roger Thornton
The flash test is happens on every board now be fore launch, its on the growing list of things that went wrong once before that we should try and avaoid
what were specific differences in the 5GHz layout?
Liam Kennedy
So I created a "fresh" image for my project (ISS-Above) using Stretch-Lite in Dec 2017. Do you off-hand know if that will work in the new 3+ - or will it need an upgrade? (don't yet have my 3+ yet to try it)
Roger Thornton
5Ghz is a lot more susceptible to noise, there are a lot of power supplies that all need to be very clean in order to hit the various test parameters.
Roger Thornton
You will need to get the latest from the website or do an upgrade / update
Liam Kennedy
Thx!
Roger Thornton
software work literally finished an hour and a half before launch for 3+!
César Héctor
HI there everyone
Stephen
wow, that's cutting it close!
Roger Thornton
It's not a launch without a mad panic moments before going live!
lol
sfrias1
:-)
baldengineer
# truth
ðeshipu
well, software is never finished
so... first questions (two of them!) from @Arsenijs 1) What's the reasoning behind only releasing a part of the schematics? and 2) Are there plans for opening up the DSI interface? If not, what are the obstacles?
Thomas Shaddack
as long as it doesn't explode 72 seconds after launch...
sfrias1
OK, thx
Roger Thornton
1) We don't release full schematics because they are our IP and confidential, the reduced schematics are there to help people understand the connector pinouts etc.
ðeshipu
I wonder how long before someone reverse-engineers them anyways
Roger Thornton
2) I believe you can have a go at using the DSI interface yourself, it's just really complicated to get it to work with a custom display.
ðeshipu
and without docs
Liam Kennedy M
p.s. scroll down to enter your questions on the link that Sophi posted.. (I stared at the page for a while before I found where the questions were being posted).
sfrias1
Thx @Liam Kennedy
Frank Buss
I guess the DSI interface is driven by the GPU? IIRC the docs for it were published some time ago
Frank Buss
should be just a matter of setting vsync/hsync/blank etc. registers the right way
next question i s from @ðeshipu : Are there any plans for having build-in power management in future versions? Even a simple shutdown button would be a huge help.
Roger Thornton
"should be just a matter of setting vsync/hsync/blank etc. registers the right way" - if only it were that simple. There's several guys at Pi who have spent months staring at DSI display datasheets trying to get them working,. They are notoriously frustrating to get to work properly.
We've worked with Max linear to build a custom PMIC for the 3+. It's a 4 output switch mode, all channels controllable over I2C. We're unlikely to include a power button, they cost money and take up a lot of space!
several guys spending months for it sounds really expensive, better hire for the same money someone who can do it in a week :-)
like me
Can I move to the next q?
You can read more about the PMIC here
MaxLinear's MxL7704 Power Management IC Powers the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+ - MaxLinear
Raspberry Pi selects MxL7704 Five Output Universal PMIC to power their new single-board computer, the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B+ CARLSBAD, Calif. - March 14, 2018 - MaxLinear, Inc. (NYSE:MXL), a leading provider of radio frequency (RF), analog and mixed-signal integrated circuits for the connected home, wired and wireless infrastructure, and industrial and multimarket applications, today ...
OK then- next q is from @Brian MacLeod : is there any likelihood of doing a board that will accept multiple Compute Modules? That way we can have clustering on the cheap :)
We'll also be doing a blog about the development of it
thanks!
The compute module was designed to allow customers to get the hardware and software that is used on the regular Pi and build it into their own custom solutions that address their needs. We provide the design files to allow people to do this, your cluster of Compute modules is just a board design away!
BTW, *vertical* SO-DIMM connectors are *very very rare*
which is what you want for a cluster of compute modules.
next q is from @anfractuosity : Will you consider adding non-usb ethernet and usb3.x at some point? Cheers!
you could mount a few horizontally on a board, and then stack the boards
We had a go at making one a long time ago and were able to get a suitable number on a card using the normal SODIMM Connectors.
A quick google shows a couple of companies that make the vertical ones but as you said, the rarity is likely to make them expensive
Non USB Ethernet and USB3 are definitely things we'd like to see. The SoC we use doesn't have the needed architecture and so we are a while away from this.
from @Thomas Shaddack : Any way to increase filesystem reliability, make the thing more resistant to powerdowns?
(gonna move fast here, there are tons of questions)
For fail safe filesystems use network boot, no need to rely on the SD card then.
that fails in case we do not have a network boot server.
( I will type my fastest Sophi)
once I've setup an embedded system with an read-only filesystem and for user data on an extra partition, should be possible for the Raspberry Pi as well
which is the case for usual field deployments as a datalogging and remote access unit.
@Roger Thornton you're doing fine :))
YESSS! thanks! :)
will it be possible to have read-only system on sd card and writable partitions on e.g. usb disk?
and there are industrial quality SD cards, which are more reliable than the consumer cards, you can get them at Digikey, but they are expensive
sure, you can configure this all just in fstab
that doesn't help with filesystem corruption. the sd card doesn't cause problems in shorter deployments.
but might need some tweaking for USB mounting etc.
one of my raspis has 854 days uptime by now.
I have many customers still running the same 8GB microSD/SD card for the past 4 years. On a system that does a lot of writes (think playing video streaming).
yeah, sometimes you are lucky :-)
next two questions are from @nightduck : 1) What's the plans on USB-C? (Maybe to replace the charging port) 2) Any hope for an embedded graphics revision? Or do I have to stick with Nvidia Tegra?
At the risk of tooting my own horn here, but it might be useful for those asking: both the power button and the filesystem corruption issues can be solved with my #LiFePO4wered/Pi and upcoming #LiFePO4wered/Pi+ projects. ;)
Roger, Happy Friday! Do you think you may consider adding eMMC boot to future Raspberry Pi models like ASUS is doing with their Tinkerboard S?
Please put your questions here so we can go in order: https://hackaday.io/event/69365-raspberry-pi-chat
next two questions are from @nightduck : 1) What's the plans on USB-C? (Maybe to replace the charging port) 2) Any hope for an embedded graphics revision? Or do I have to stick with Nvidia Tegra?
Hi i have no luck witch sata and slackware :/
...thought... could the wear damage be annealed by baking out the cards at high temperature for prolonged period, to let the charge carriers trapped in the gate oxide (the flash wear mechanism) to drift away? (just a throw into the crowd, to maybe address Sometime Later.)
1) USB C is great, but very, very expensive connector wise as it's not been as widely(and for as long
1) USB C is great, but very, very expensive connector wise as it's not been as widely(and for as long) adopted by the industry
p.s. have to scroll even further down the page to post your questions on the link Sophi gave ( I though questions had closed because there is a transcript of THIS chat above the place where you place your questions). I think I need help.
Keeping to that $35 price point I am sure puts quite a challenge in play with ANY new designs
2) Yes, better graphics performance is always something we would want to see but as before it takes time for Broadcom to devlop new chips for us to use. We've done an amazing amount of squeezing every last drop out of 40nm
Did we already cover SATA? If not the next question is from @Pabluski : Are there plans for a SATA connector for the Pi?
eMMC is just to expensive to use, comparing a $35 board to $55+ board is going to give a distorted view on the market
SATA would be great, just the same as USB3, we're limited by cost and architecture, something that were working very hard to rectify.
just buy a Banana Pi, it has SATA, same price as the Raspberry Pi, and fully open source
PSA: in the comments on the event page, there are people looking to give away old Pis.
next question is from @Evan Juras :Are there any plans to create an improved Camera Module V3 any time soon? Would it be possible to add an auto-focus feature?
Definitely, if SATA is something that you just can't live without for there are some good alternatives. The best thing about Pi is there's a big community of people and companies to help with development and at the end of it all the profits go to a great charity doing great things.
sorry @Liam Kennedy you'll have to scroll down further now to reach the comm ents
Yes.. I KNOW... NOW.. haha.. just missed that for a while.
next question is from @Evan Juras :Are there any plans to create an improved Camera Module V3 any time soon? Would it be possible to add an auto-focus feature?
Developping raspberry as a Software Radio Defined (rpitx). Could it be possible to design a 50ohm line to pin header (PWM and GPIO4 ) ?
There's always scope for new camera modules, we've been busy on the latest Pi board, but now the dust is settling there may be time to look at some new camera ideas.
What would you want from anew camera modules?
Thanks for answering! Auto-focus would be my number one request, beyond that, just more megapixels! :)
great, do you have any applications you are interested in using it?
Thanks, Roger! Presently I am paying $30 for the high performance SD cards I use in my Pi's...so I would be happy to pay ~$55 for a Pi if it came with built in storage like eMMC that had higher performance than an SD card. Love my Raspberry Pi and looking forward to getting my new 3B+! Keep up the great work!
can autofocus be done as "aftermarket"? maybe some electromechanics with a M12x0.5 lens holder?
I think a little flashlight to improve lighting while taking pictures/video could be useful too
Super curious about this one very practical question from @ted : Officially or not, how tolerant is the GPIO to 5v?
Yes, I'm working on a Raspberry Pi-powered, blackjack playing, card counting robot! I would be stoked if you checked out my video on it :)
It uses Camera Module V2, my main complaint with it is that it's hard to get the right focus. Having good focus is very helpful for image processing
Autofocus has been done aftermarket, there was something on the forums where someone had got a mount for other lenses, it worked but was quite hard to do!
Great question for GPIO
+1 on that GPIO 5V question too.
It's defintely not 5V tolerantm, the pins on the SoC are 3V3 pads and there's no protection between them and the GPIO header. Try at your own risk!
that sounds like a pretty strong no :)
Thanks.
That sounds like a "yes, but I'm not legally responsible"
next q also from @ted : Why has ADC not been added? Why no official support of getting the voltage level (even though it's obviously there)? What about allowing a flexible voltage input (e.g., putting a regulator on board)?
haha
I guess if you use a high series resistor like 1k, then it might be safe, because the substrate diodes will short it to the supply rail, but right, I would recommend something like a 74LVCT1T45, too
I think any hardware engineers will tell you: no, dont put +5V on +3.3V inputs! :)
i use resistor dividers for input. 1k/2k2 (or 10k/22k) do the job well.
some chips allows it
+1 for @Frank Buss
then they are not 3.3V inputs, are they
We have a voltage detector in the new PMIC, which gives us a flag when we are undervoltaged on the 5V. Adding extra regulators to allow for a wider input voltage would be costly.
connect 5v there via said resistor. check voltage across the resistor. if zero, chip is 5v-tolerant. if 1.7v, it is not.
Personal experience on the 5v GPIO thing (on purpose). Don't. One RPi lasted a small amount of time (minutes), two others did not (died in seconds).
next q from @cesar : Is there a way to use an external GPU with the Raspberry, for computational purposes?
(we've got only about 5 minutes left)
Through a USB
resistor divider has the problem that it slows down the signal
My (unpopular) opinion: 5V has been long dead, get over it. :)
you can get nice birectional logic shifters
https://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/41622/how-to-connect-a-graphic-card-to-raspberry-pi
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