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MockA65xx - Universal 6502/85xx CPU replacement

Project to reverse-engineer and create edge-level exact replacements for major MOS6502-derivatives and also other MOS/CSG chips!

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Project to reverse-engineer and create edge-level exact replacements for MOS6502-derivatives and also other MOS/CSG chips.

So far the following CPUs are planned or already implemented:

6502
6508
6509
6510T
6510 (aka 8500)
8501
8502

The actual 6502-derivative to be replaced can be selected via four solder bridges on the
bottom layer of the PCB. That means: One MockA65xx fits it all!

Inspired by the Visual6502 and Monster6502 project and my previous work on reverse-engineering the digital part of the famous 6581/SID chip I decided to create an edge-level exact replacement of the MOS6502 to replace its major derivatives. In order to exactly mimic their behavior I chose to dig deep into the schematics, die shots etc. One by-product is the MockA65xx hardware that is quite similar to the now hard-to-find GoDIL40 module - but smaller and cheaper.

MockA65xx_Pins.pdf

Overview of the derivatives planned initially... might be obsolete now! :-)

Adobe Portable Document Format - 24.19 kB - 05/17/2019 at 08:14

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  • Sometimes SMT/SMD just suckz...

    androSID4 days ago 0 comments

    Last week I tried to get my 8501 core (very slightly extended 6502 core)
    running on my MockA65xx - but without success! Bad luck!

    In order to nail down the problem I decided to use my HDL code on Jim Brain's Fake7501 - (7501/8501 to 6502 Adapter) together with an original MOS6502A in order to check if my 6502 core or the 8501 GATE IN logic is wrong... In the end it turned out that neither the CPU nor the GATE IN was wrong but that at least one of the pins of the damn prototype(s!). All four prototypes suffer the same problem:
    Missing solderpaste on some of the contacts. Unfortunately a few of the contacts are located below the FPGA (BGA case)... and that really suckz as I currently have no possibility to rework them. I was just lucky that the board I picked 1st and mainly used was just the best with fewer errors... However one good thing: At least I could help a friend of mine now to further improve his reworked C16 mainboard (64kB, better video signal routing, better PSU etc.) to work with a cheap 6502A instead of the 8501 which is far more expensive. For those of you who understand german: Rework of C16 Board PS: And of course I now know that my GATE IN (the little H/W extension that turns a 6502 to a 8501) logic is correct.

  • Some artwork for my office...

    androSID11/11/2019 at 21:07 0 comments

    I hope you don't mind me spamming my own blog as this one is only slightly related to the project:

    A little artwork/picture for my office! Doesn't it look cool??? At least for a nerd like me it does!

    PS: It's the die of the 6510 (or more exact it's successor 8500).

  • New protoype working!

    androSID11/11/2019 at 20:39 0 comments

    Having enjoyed (no... not really) a quite long pause from this project I got back to it a few days ago.

    Doing a major revamp of the Top Level Interface I finally made all external timings (Setup, hold times etc.) adjustable and made the whole thing 100% edge level exact to the "real thing" now. I'm glad that the new hardware and new FPGA code are working... but see yourself:

    The next


    The next steps will be 6510 (once again to be able to run the Lorenz Test Suite) and the 8501 as this one seems to be needed... maybe the only one of the bunch!? LOL

  • Work resumed...

    androSID09/27/2019 at 14:00 0 comments

    Over summer vacation I lost a little bit of drive (i.e. motivation) but I'm back now! :-)

    While I reverse engineered the GATE IN circuitry a while ago I was not happy with the

    pictures of the die... so I had re-do them just for the sake of doing it:

    MOS8501R4 metal vs. poly layer

  • Even MOS/CSG was re-using layouts!

    androSID07/09/2019 at 15:06 0 comments

    When starting the project I actually used die shots which were much worse

    than the ones I use now (for other projects):

    MOS8500R4 (aka 6510) vs. MOS8501R4

    Although picture quality is quite embarrassing I could get use them because of

    their similarity. That means: MOS/CSG really re-used chip masks which can

    clearly be seen here.

  • That's what happens when I cannot sleep! :-\

    androSID07/05/2019 at 15:04 0 comments

    Sometimes insomnia is good... some results from yesterday night:

    Metal <-> Poly layer of MOS8360R2 (aka TED PAL+NTSC).

    At least it's more than good enough for conversion to netlist.

  • Making progress... slowly! :-)

    androSID07/02/2019 at 12:38 0 comments

    I was lazy busy in the last weeks... mainly stitching upcoming die shots
    which I had to verify/check in time for errors for future projects. (Hint hint: Stay tuned!).

    Anyway I redid (stitching) the MOS6509R7 just for fun:

    Metal <-> Poly layer of MOS6509R7

    Well... to be honest:

    Actually there was no point doing the MOS6509R7 again as I already
    reversed the relevant parts. In fact I did it not for fun but in order to improve
    my workflow and to speed up development by using the vectorized die shot
    directly for simulation.

  • 4 new protoypes arrived

    androSID05/17/2019 at 07:52 0 comments

    2019-05-16: Received 4 new prototypes... first tests via boundary-scan showed that circuit design is working...

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Discussions

Aidan Dodds wrote 11/11/2019 at 22:46 point

I'm so interested in this project.  I'd also love to see a schematic for the hardware as I've wanted to make an 5v tolerant fpga dev board for some time.

Really cool project, and i'd insta buy one (or 10) if it was sold on tindie.

  Are you sure? yes | no

androSID wrote 11/12/2019 at 07:09 point

The schematics will be published once the (hopefully) final hardware is made. But if you need some information beforehand just let me know... My board will also be sold with full information - so everyone can use it to make his own DIL40 replacement part(s).

  Are you sure? yes | no

Starhawk wrote 11/11/2019 at 22:35 point

WANT. (insert jumping coffee mug GIF here)

Dude, the 6508 is rarer than hens' teeth. I've been looking for one in the wild for... at least five years now. Earlier this year I saw *two* on eBay in short succession, and both were out of my price range essentially instantly... and I'd never seen one before and probably won't again for a very, very long time.

The /really/ annoying thing is that I actually sort of have a use for the dang chip. I just can't get one.

You know... this also opens up the possibility of creating custom 6502 variants that all share the same package (40oin DIP) but have various different capabilities... like a 6508 with 256 (or even 512) bytes of RAM instead of 128, for example, which would be pretty dang cool. I don't know much about FPGAs (really I hardly know anything) but I kind of wonder how hard it would be to put together a custom configurator sort of thing, where you could basically roll your own 6502 variant in that package, with a relatively simple crossplatform wizard and the requisite hardware. That would be AMAZING.

  Are you sure? yes | no

androSID wrote 11/12/2019 at 07:14 point

I recently sold 3x 6508R2S on eBay... even in ceramic package. Never thought someone would actually need them except for repairing this old C900? Anyway I'm trying to implement this one (should be quite easy) but I hope to find someone with a C900 in order to make some measurements. I'd like to find out the behavior of the address bus, data bus and R/W# as soon as the internal RAM is accessed.

  Are you sure? yes | no

Starhawk wrote 11/12/2019 at 16:03 point

Hmmm... are you in Munich? The two I saw were sold by the same guy on there, and IIRC that's where he lived... could be wrong. I wrote him as well, at one point... my eBay handle is very similar to my handle here. Would be kind of amusing if you were him ;)

The thing I want to use one for, is inspired, at least in part, by a slightly obscure retrocomputing kit system one can buy nowadays... Lee Hart's "Membership Card" based on the RCA CDP1802 CPU (which is incredibly weird in so many interesting ways) that fits in an Altoids metal mint tin. I want to do something sort of similar -- I figure I can maybe get a hex trainer accomplished, something like the KIM-1, if I do it right -- with a 6502 variant and a 2nd Gen iPod Shuffle's plastic retail box. (I should note, at some point, that I have a couple of very old, very Soviet 8- or 9-digit calculator-style "bubble" displays, to provide a remarkably compact display.) I can't afford proper custom PCBs, but I figure if I can keep the chip count to what will fit on three 5x7cm eBay-issue perfboards, I should be okay. Each of those perfboards is 18 x 24 holes, though, so the lower I can get the chip count in absolutely every way possible, the easier the task becomes. I'm admittedly cheating a little already, since the plan is that the control keypad will be very much external, but I really want everything else to fit in that box...

  Are you sure? yes | no

Starhawk wrote 11/29/2019 at 02:40 point

OH DUH. Sent you a PM.

  Are you sure? yes | no

androSID wrote 07/04/2019 at 07:44 point

It's implemented in a FPGA... the only thing missing right now is finalizing the hardware. I got distracted by other pending reverse engineering projects.

  Are you sure? yes | no

Ken Yap wrote 07/03/2019 at 11:32 point

I take my hat off to your ambition. I am guessing from the tag FPGA that you intend to implement this in a FPGA eventually? Looking forward to it. 👍!

  Are you sure? yes | no

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