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Juday-White Experiment

A project log for EMDrive/satellite

Developing a small fuelless microwave thruster

Paul KocylaPaul Kocyla 10/20/2015 at 21:0627 Comments

I performed a modified Juday-White experiment with the BabyEMdrive:

In the previous experiments, the EMdrive was sitting on a moving platform, which was connected to one of the mirrors of the interferometer.
This time, the interferometer setup is solid, both mirrors are fixed.

Assuming that a drive in line with one of the laser paths will contract/expand the space, the interference pattern would change. In the original Juday/White experiment, the EMdrive was placed into the laser path (I assume with drills in the endwalls to let the laser pass through).
I positioned the EMdrive just behind one of the mirrors, hoping an eventual space contraction would be strong enough to alter the length of the laser´s path.
And indeed I measured something. I don´t know if these effects are really related to space contraction or are for example caused by heat. A first sight shows a difference related to the EMdrive orientation, but I´d like to give the interpretation to you, because I don´t want to be affected by possible personal illusions.
You will find the data in the repository under charts\JW



Discussions

pomezi wrote 11/30/2015 at 13:00 point

Hi. 

Any idea when the next round of testing will be or is the experiment complete?

Thanks,

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Paul Kocyla wrote 11/30/2015 at 14:17 point

I am currently building up a new EMdrive experiment which involves much more time and effort.
I got almost everything together, but it will take a few weeks until I can continue.
New updates will be available for sure in less than one month.

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Paul Kocyla wrote 11/30/2015 at 14:17 point

I am currently building up a new EMdrive experiment which involves much more time and effort.
I got almost everything together, but it will take a few weeks until I can continue.
New updates will be available for sure in less than one month.

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willemstaal wrote 11/10/2015 at 15:52 point

interesting..

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willemstaal wrote 11/10/2015 at 15:52 point
Second generation EmDrive propulsion applied to SSTO launcher and interstellar 

by

Roger Shawyer
•The latest work on EmDrive propulsion for spacecraft is described.
•YBCO superconducting cavities are incorporated into the thrusters.
•Three engine types using multiple cavities are detailed.
•A Single-Stage-To-Orbit spaceplane is described and mission parameters given.
•An Interstellar Probe is described and mission parameters given.

Abstract
In
an IAC13 paper the dynamic operation of a second generation
superconducting EmDrive thruster was described. A mathematical model was
developed and, in this paper, that model is used to extend the
performance envelope of the technology. Three engine designs are
evaluated. One is used as a lift engine for a launch vehicle, another as
an orbital engine for the launcher and a third as the main engine for
an interstellar probe.
The engines are based on YBCO
superconducting cavities, and performance is predicted on the basis of
the test data obtained in earlier experimental programmes. The Q values range from 8×107 to 2×108 and provide high values of specific force over a range of accelerations from 0.4 m/s/s to 6 m/s/s.
The
launch vehicle is an “all-electric” single stage to orbit (SSTO)
spaceplane, using a 900 MHz, eight cavities, fully gimballed lift
engine. A 1.5 GHz fixed orbital engine provides the horizontal velocity
component. Both engines use total loss liquid hydrogen cooling.
Electrical power is provided by fuel cells, fed with gaseous hydrogen
from the cooling system and liquid oxygen. A 2 ton payload, externally
mounted, can be flown to Low Earth Orbit in a time of 27 min. The total
launch mass is 10 ton, with an airframe styled on the X37B, which allows
aerobraking and a glide approach and landing.
The
full potential of EmDrive propulsion for deep space missions is
illustrated by the performance of the interstellar probe. A
multi-cavity, fixed 500 MHz engine is cooled by a closed cycle liquid
nitrogen system. The refrigeration is carried out in a two stage reverse
Brayton Cycle. Electrical power is provided by a 200 kWe nuclear
generator. The 9 ton spacecraft, which includes a 1 ton science payload,
will achieve a terminal velocity of 0.67c, (where c is the speed of light), and cover a distance of 4 light years, over the 10 year propulsion period.
The
work reported in this paper has resulted in design studies for two
Demonstrator spacecrafts. The launcher will demonstrate the
long-sought-for, low cost access to space, and also meet the mission
requirements of the proposed DARPA XS-1 Spaceplane. The probe will
enable the dream of an interstellar mission to be achieved within the
next 20 years.

Abbreviations
YBCO, Yttrium Barium Copper Oxide;
Q, Quality factor of a resonant circuit;
kWe, Kilowatt electrical;
NWPU, North Western Polytechnical University;
SPR, Satellite Propulsion Research Ltd;
TAA, Technology Assistance Agreement;
MOD, Ministry of Defence;
DARPA, Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency;
USAF, United States Air Force;
NSSO, National Security Space Office;
NASA, National Aeronautics and Space Agency;
CANNAE LLC, US private Company;
GEO, Geostationary Orbit;
EM, Electromagnetic;
CoG, Centre of Gravity;
C Band, Microwave frequency Band C;
LH2, Liquid Hydrogen;
LOX, Liquid Oxygen;
TWTA, Travelling Wave Tube Amplifier;
K, Kelvin

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Andrew Barker wrote 11/08/2015 at 16:52 point

Can you give more details about this experiment? I have my own hypothesis regarding the EmDrive and I'm trying to gather data for it and your experiment looks like something that might relate to it.  pictures of the setup would be nice. Before and after pictures of the interference pattern you observed would be nice too.  

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Paul Kocyla wrote 11/09/2015 at 19:28 point

You can download the data and the viewer from the repository. Unfortunately i don´t have the full interference pattern: The recording is a line-cut through the pattern over time. The logs contain pictures from the platform setup. The JW-setup is sketched in the picture - it´s a Michelson interferometer with fixed mirrors. The EMdrive sits behind one of the mirrors.
I found some changes in the graph, but too low to tell that it´s some warp effect.

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willemstaal wrote 11/05/2015 at 10:22 point

Hey Paul! 

Did you read this?? http://www.iflscience.com/space/nasa-allegedly-conducts-more-successfully-emdrive-tests0

This proofs your work will be succesfull in the end! So keep testing and experimenting!

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Paul Kocyla wrote 11/05/2015 at 15:48 point

Yes, this gives hope :) We are currently preparing a new setup and will reveal it soon

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Paul Kocyla wrote 11/09/2015 at 19:28 point

Yes. It sounds great. We are working on a new setup right now.

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MW Motors wrote 10/24/2015 at 20:31 point

I am with  LUIZEDUARDOP...  But, I do not find it intriguing, I find it a bit nasty.  The work on this project is amazing.  Paul can share whatever he likes, whatever way he likes.   I am fully open to getting ripped apart on normal forums.  On normal forums, un-informed people read the headline or soundbite & just say "'this is shite" or that you are lying or ask a million dumb questions.. I would even expect some of this on the HaD.com site..  But, at HaD.io,  I would expect only positive critique.  As Paul rightly says, read the logs...Positive critique means informing the builder about stuff he may not have thought of etc..  Not telling him to make a better power-point..

The best answer to the people who criticize when they are too lazy to even read the project logs is just to ask them to share the EM Drive they have built..  It must be better than this one if they are willing to criticize it.. But, clearly, they have never built anything or they would be more careful before throwing stones.. 

Paul, well done, keep up the good work & ignore the people who are not open to new thinking.  I think we all know, the joy is in the making, not in the reporting!

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Paul Kocyla wrote 10/25/2015 at 06:49 point

Exactly! :) Thanx a lot for the motivation. We are working on a better setup right now, we will have new results in a few weeks.

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LUIZEDUARDOP wrote 10/26/2015 at 12:44 point

One of my favorite Brazilian political columnists said once: "Those who cannot find time to try and change the world apparently have a lot of time to criticize those who do!"

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LUIZEDUARDOP wrote 10/23/2015 at 18:58 point

I find it intriguing why people would bother coming here and writing anything just to criticise the work. If you dont like the way hes doing things, just dont follow this anymore. Keep up the good work guys!

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Paul Kocyla wrote 10/24/2015 at 07:06 point

Thanx :) They will not stop us from playing with this technology. No matter if it works or not, any measruement and data may be valuable to someone who is also interested in that topic.

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Blaine wrote 10/22/2015 at 02:01 point

I tried to stand up for you guys on reddit, but they would have none of it.  You keep having your interesting ideas; it inspires the rest of us.  Thanks and good luck.

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Paul Kocyla wrote 10/22/2015 at 06:29 point

Thanx, we´ll continue the work.

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Tibor Szász wrote 10/22/2015 at 11:14 point

Work could include better presentation of your findings. You could spend extra 5 minutes of PS to add labels to the graphs or making a hyperlink to that repository. 

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Paul Kocyla wrote 10/22/2015 at 15:48 point

I´m suffering of chronical lack of time. If someone is interested, he can spend some of HIS time to read the logs. All information is there, and I prepared a comfortable viewer with CSV export and explanations of the graphs.
I can just repeat for the 100th time: It´s a hobby and I am not getting paid for it - and therefore I have no obligation to make a perfect presentation.
If you have specific questions AFTER having read the logs, I will be happy to give you the answers.

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Tibor Szász wrote 10/23/2015 at 15:01 point

> It´s a hobby and I am not getting paid for it - and therefore I have no obligation to make a perfect presentation.

Well, you do sort of if you believe in doing good science. Or maybe your hobby is bad science, then apologies ;) No offense btw, I'd just like to push you to communicate your results better. I'm doing free, open source programming also for free, but I feel the need of good docs and explanations on how my stuff works. 

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willemstaal wrote 10/22/2015 at 13:52 point

Good luck, lots of fuckwits on Reddit. its a bucket full of trolls there im afraid.

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Paul Kocyla wrote 10/22/2015 at 18:14 point

Thanx :) This fact won´t stop us from continuing.
Trolls are simple minded: Either they want to get everything on a silver plate and get frustrated when the information is not chewed enough for them, or they are jealous that someone is actually DOING something instead of just talking about it. Today´s society is about presenting yourself - it doesn´t matter if you actually DO something. So if I hear words, i ask for results. Everyone who makes projects has to deal with some idiots who wanna piss into your soup, maybe we should make more fun of them :-D
What I´m doing, I am doing because of passion. And of course I want to share it and discuss the progress with people who are interested or have already experience in that topic.

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simonjwhitaker wrote 10/21/2015 at 23:22 point

Can you post a link to the results?  Where is charts\JW located?

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Paul Kocyla wrote 10/22/2015 at 06:28 point

Click on "repository" on the project page. It will open dropbox where you can download the viewer and the data.

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willemstaal wrote 10/21/2015 at 08:44 point

You can also think the other way around: try to cool the room. place a few buckets of icewater under the testrig. 

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Alan S wrote 10/20/2015 at 23:43 point

This approach does allow testing for the pure thermal effects directly. Determine MAX T when doing the live experiment. Then test with something that heats the chamber. Load resister, nichrome, small lightbulb, etc.

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