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Hack Chat Transcript, Part 4

A event log for Battery Engineering Hack Chat

The power in your pocket

dan-maloneyDan Maloney 12/14/2022 at 21:570 Comments
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Dave Sopchak1:05 PM
OK. I'll send it after this

Dave Sopchak1:05 PM
what i'll give myself 15 more min before going back into my dank lab

Thomas Shaddack1:05 PM
the laboratory is a temple, because the chemist is a god.

Dave Sopchak1:06 PM

Dave Sopchak1:06 PM
well it has its perks

Dan Maloney1:06 PM
And here I am just writing up the "time's up" thing...

Thomas Shaddack1:06 PM
magnetron sputtering!

Dave Sopchak1:06 PM
not all dank

Dave Sopchak1:06 PM
yes, that would be correct

Thomas Shaddack1:06 PM
should get into that. sadly, the only thing in my shop that does not suck is the vacuum pump.

Dave Sopchak1:06 PM
well @Dan Maloney is it ok if we go a little over if I promise to clean up?

Dave Sopchak1:07 PM
@Thomas Shaddack well, I know a guy...

Dan Maloney1:07 PM
Absolutely fine! But I'll just say the official "Thanks!" and let the conversation wind down naturally.

Dave Sopchak1:07 PM
okey

kjansky11:07 PM
Need to work on Mg Al batteries for lower cost and material availability.

Dan Maloney1:07 PM
Thanks to Dave for stopping by today and to everyone for a great discussion!

Dave Sopchak1:08 PM
it has been a pleasure. thanks for inviting me

Tom Johnson1:08 PM
As a comms-guy I feel like I should ask about any open-source BMS projects.

Dusan Petrovic1:08 PM
Thanks everyone!

Tom Johnson1:09 PM
Ahh..next time. Thank you.

Dan Maloney1:09 PM
You bet, I really enjoyed this one -- anytime I get to talk about plutonium is a happy time! Thanks for helping us wrap up the 2022 Hack Chat season with a bang!

Thomas Shaddack1:09 PM
Had a thought about the bidirectional buckboost. Change the architecture of e-vehicles. Have a small Li-titanate battery built in, as a low-temp tolerant high-current high-cycle tolerant primary source for the engines. Have a power bus from it to the bays with the buckboost nodes. Put anything into the bay - a conventional Li-ion battery, a hydrogen fuel cell, a turbine fed with dry-distilled waste plastic scavenged after the zombie apocalypse, a completely new emerging battery chemistry, or nothing if we conserve weight and do not need distance, and go.

Dave Sopchak1:10 PM
@Tom Johnson not my ball of wax but I'll keep my ear out for the BMS stuff. Grateful folks are working on other pieces of the puzzle. I only have two hands

Dan Maloney1:11 PM
FYI, I'll be posting a transcript once things wrap up a bit, in case anyone needs a link or whatever

Dave Sopchak1:11 PM
Mixing and matching power sources depending on the application is always a good thing to do. There are no one size fits all solutions

kjansky11:12 PM
I guess we just need to keep charging on!

Thomas Shaddack1:12 PM
Same for stationary power. Have matching circuitry that can feed a battery bank, a hydrogen electrolyzer, whatever we got. Without having to plan for things in detail during initial build.

Dave Sopchak1:12 PM
I haven't tried, but I would suspect some resistive heating of cold Li ion batteries might help them warm up faster. I'd be surprised if this wasn't used to some extent already, to the limits of what you could get away with without damaging things

Dave Sopchak1:12 PM
meaning, the battery is more resistive when it's cold, so its internal resistance should warm it up a bit...

Thomas Shaddack1:12 PM
Have a big power plant made from smaller modules. If needed, break off modules and move them where they are needed more. If something fails, we degrade performance by the percentage of disabled units and continue on.

Thomas Shaddack1:13 PM
I saw somewhere a battery with built-in resistive heaters.

Dave Sopchak1:13 PM
a nuclear reactor on every rooftop! What could possibly go wrong?

Thomas Shaddack1:13 PM
In every basement. Rooftops are for the backup generators in tsunami/flood areas.

Dave Sopchak1:13 PM
One time we started our fuel cells up from -30C. it took a while but it worked

Thomas Shaddack1:13 PM
well, the sun itself is a nuclear reactor fed with a fossil fuel.

Dave Sopchak1:14 PM
can't do that with nafion. ice crystals puncture the membrane

Thomas Shaddack1:14 PM
in long term, certainly not a renewable.

Tom Johnson1:14 PM
@Thomas Shaddack Interesting on the BB concept. As these things become more modularized and interchangable the application-space widens.

Thomas Shaddack1:14 PM
could we inhibit the formation of the crystals in some way? or make them form in a way that do not penetrate the membrane?

Dave Sopchak1:14 PM
I say we kick the sun running out of fuel down to future generations

kjansky11:14 PM
Carbon is a stellar nuclear waste product.

Thomas Shaddack1:15 PM
Intermediate. Iron is the final waste.

Dave Sopchak1:15 PM
make it into diamond

Thomas Shaddack1:15 PM
Dyson Spheres!

Dave Sopchak1:15 PM
@Tom Johnson my old company Ultracell really got into mixing and matching all kinds of modular portable power sources depending on need/availability

kjansky11:15 PM
So white dwarfs are composed of diamond.

Dave Sopchak1:16 PM
sure, diamond at 170 g/cc, sure

Thomas Shaddack1:16 PM
Could be handy for kinetic penetrators. Depleted uranium, eat your heart out!

kjansky11:16 PM
'Diamond rain' falls on Saturn and Jupiter - BBC News

Thomas Shaddack1:17 PM
more accurate would be "falls *in* Saturn and Jupiter".

Nicolas Tremblay left  the room.1:17 PM

Thomas Shaddack1:19 PM
Old car batteries will be a plentiful resource, reusable for house power. An arrray of such units can give a megawatt or more in short term. Could be handy for DIY pulsed power fun and games.

Dave Sopchak1:19 PM
OK kids I'm going to head into the lab to commit electrochemistry. Thanks for the conversation

Thomas Shaddack1:20 PM
Was GREAT to see you!

kjansky11:20 PM
Ok I need to replace another aluminum take out pie plate electrode in my laptop battery cause the old one is dissolving away.

Thomas Shaddack1:20 PM
random thought. opensource potentiostats, and other electrochemistry gear.

Thomas Shaddack1:20 PM
for voltammetry and so.

Dave Sopchak1:20 PM
yes I have baby designs. one quad op amp. Great for teaching

Tom Johnson1:21 PM
I'm off to cook a lasagna in an iron pan and store it with aluminum foil. Bye for now.

Thomas Shaddack1:21 PM
the i2c current-voltage sensors are great for such toying.

Thomas Shaddack1:21 PM
ina219, ina3221 and so on.

ILove Scotch1:22 PM
@Tom Johnson "I have backup applications for equipment sitting in unheated buildings." look at LTO batteries maybe?

Tom Johnson1:23 PM
Will look. Thanks.

Dave Sopchak1:26 PM
@Tom Johnson sent you an email

ILove Scotch1:26 PM
@Tom Johnson "As a comms-guy I feel like I should ask about any open-source BMS projects." Yeah someone needs to release open Spec with example embedded library ready to run. it's someone on my to do list.

ILove Scotch1:27 PM
Something

Dave Sopchak1:27 PM
@ILove Scotch also thanks for the conversation

ILove Scotch1:28 PM
Np which I could have asked more question, I dipped out eariler as had to pick up my kid.

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