Lutetium
@technolomaniac do you personally support the subscription model Autodesk forced onto Eagle?
@technolomaniac being that F360 is said to run In The Clown, is there any future for a Linux client?
i've taken to just modeling my model-less parts in fusion, but it's crazy time consuming to do every single time.
in the clown :-)
A Linux port would definitely be awesome
the future is Clown Computing
yah well, I would prefer to do a proper linux version. the issues are not fusion per se but some of the 3rd party libraries. anytime you use a 3rd party - just FWIW - pay attention to the platforms it runs on!
Send in the clowns
@technolomaniac One UX improvement I'd like to see in Fusion is better feedback about why I can't move an item in the timeline past a certain point. Usually it just won't budge without any clear indication of why.
@Jan I actually do...but perhaps not for the reasons you think.
I can't believe it took a full 13 minutes to get to the first Linux question
me too but if Wine means I get Fusion for Linux sooner than later I would prefer that :)
would be less development effort as well, quite a few companies are doing the official Linux builds with Wine actually
Teamviewer being one of them
inLinux would be the icing on the cake - The fact the F360 runs on a MAC was the main reason I left Mastercam for my NC programming at work.
the graphics APIs matured a lot since Valve poured some money into it
If it's gonna run in Linux then it better run in FreeBSD, too! [only half-serious]
@Prof. Fartsparkle I think Skype was for a while, but the Linux version has been years behind for a long time
I tend to like subscription because if you do it right, it drives good behavior on the developer / product side and is good for a company's stability and bottom line. yes, I know it feels like lock-in and I dont like that aspect (or that impression rather) but I DO like that I can predict how many developers I will be able to hire to attack a given problem and the investment in eagle wouldnt have happened without it.
@Prof. Fartsparkle I doubt that was the issue, considering that OpenGL in Linux was already better than MacOS.
so are they any tangible plans for a Linux version or is that idea way back on the shelf?
@Rob Speed fully agree. I have been stuck in fusion on a few things like that and I think we can probably elevate that to be closer to the mouse cursor rather than the message in the lower right
That's interesting - we're so used to thinking that what's good for a company is bad for the customers, but it may not be so.
@technolomaniac Those messages can also be a bit cryptic.
@technolomaniac can you share a bit about the short/medium term of plans about the EAGLE development?
just high level
it's not something I have a team of guys working on but it's also something that really just needs someone to evaluate all of the 3rd party libs and confirm it would work. we already use cmake and build scripts that dont depend on the IDE (well technically they are very geared for VS or XCode)
I see
@Miklos Marton so I'l emphasize again, my aim is to build a single application that doesnt have any of this wonky back and forth B.S. thru translation layers to make things really sing
would be great if you could share this topic with the team maybe: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-ideastation/official-linux-support-through-wine/idi-p/8676002
I do think it could be a very realistic way if there are major obstacle with third party libraries
so we have done a lot of this work already and I would just stress, wait and see. I have a board now, in Fusion with fully extruded copper, *as a solid model* and if you reflect for a sec on what that means...
- that means that all of fusion's cam workspace is avail
- that means that all of fusion's thermal sim is avail
ooooo
oh wow
- that means real material properties and real rendering
like...very...freaking...real
@technolomaniac I have another one: do you have a closer look at other CAD packages on a regular basis? do you take free software like KiCAD seriously?
I did it with beaglebone.
Not sure when the next recession in the economy will occur, but when it does, it will put a strain on the affordability of a Fusion 360 subscription for a lot of hobbyist users imo.
and that is coming to all Eagel versions? o:
and the rendering is now at 60fps
@technolomaniac Managing part, footprint and symbol libraries has always been a pain point for me in most EDA I've used. While I don't have deep experience with EAGLE as professionally I use KiCad, how does or how can EAGLE improve managing per project, per client, and company shared part, footprint and symbol objects across teams? and does EAGLE offer any way to important that information from suppliers to decrease the amount of data entry that needs to happen? Sorry that the question isn't needle point specific.
the product mix will require that this is ecad much *closer* to fusion.
does that mean the 2D renderer for Eagle was also redone? :)
I had major performance Issue since 9.x
@technolomaniac So… there's gonna be a PCB material in the default library? :D
@Prof. Fartsparkle not yet. this is in the cards. personally I would throw the whole renderer out and start again and well...I make that call. so yes, we will do that.
oh that makes me very happy
@Rob Speed that's in the plan, for sure.
@technolomaniac Awesome. It's the little things.
can't wait for the day Eagle becomes "Fusion PCB"
@Josh Lloyd so we are adding sharing of libs and sharing of 3d models in the next release...which is also why we did a server deployment yesterday.
I have to work with mCAD people very closesly at work when I do PCBs, a better integration that we have right now would make the whole workflow so much easier
*than
I like Electron but that was only after people turned my down for my first choice of names.
@Prof. Fartsparkle I agree this process can suck
heh
I mean the current integration is already tremendously helpful but the constant syncing issues are a bit of a pain
I want to get to a point that you can select a face and say 'build me a board from this' and maintain the associativity...we already do this but it's not as elegant as it could be.
@technolomaniac Currently we check all of this stuff in to Git, its not the best place for large binary blobs but it does track versions. Is there a nice way to move from this workflow in to EAGLE and F360? Presumably we keep it all cloud synced and version it on the cloud?
and me having to boot into a VM to check how it looks in Fusion....
@technolomaniac How easy or hard is to crack EAGLE and run it for free, and what kind of protection are you using ?
lol
gret question
:D
@Aleksandar Bilanovic I'm laughing.
I mean unless you make huge boards its free anyways..
@technolomaniac what about being able to send a fusion sketch into eagle as a layer (ie outline or dimension) so drill holes and things on the pcb can be pulled from fusion rather than having to place them in eagle and tweak the fusion model around
@Prof. Fartsparkle or using more than 2 layers lol
@Josh Lloyd well nothing eagle uses is binary...so that part is all pretty easy (its just XML). the fusion file is just a zip. rename it and unpack and you have all of the stuff inside. we dont hide that stuff much but when you connect to the cloud, you want compression or guys like Bilke's infrastructure will be way too slow.
@stansanders I would prefer if all of the board outline definition was fusion sketch based.
but that brings me to my other question @technolomaniac will you do a simplified license model for Eagle, similar to how Fusion 360 has done it now?
Meaning, all features for free for non profit work and a medium prized license with all features for commercial work
@Aleksandar Bilanovic if you need to crack eagle, you need to consider another occupation,
Got em.
Zing
I've never paid a penny for EAGLE, but I'm also making itty-bitty boards.
@technolomaniac So the sharing of libs and sharing of models functionality, the new functionality. Is that intended for Cloud sync at your end?
with less 2 layers max, right?
@Prof. Fartsparkle so I would say that the target for me is to really get the cost to where there's never a discussion about starting to use the tool and the decisions come when you start making money...at which point, we should plan to win.
I think that's a thing which shouldn't be restricted so much. 4 layers should be free for everyone
@Josh Lloyd yes. that is coming.
totally, though currently open source work with Eagle is a bit hard because you are always constrained in what you do, to do more involved open source work I would have to turn to KiCad atm
Does AUTOCAD LT have a free license for small 2D drawings?
@Jan I agree. I do 4 layers on almost every board because I like my power and ground pours and the lower noise and better heat distribution that gives me.
@technolomaniac Are there any plans to provide some more sophisticated automation method to the EAGLE other than the current ULPs?
ULPs just PITA a lot of times
I am thinking about doing something very imple
@Jan I used to be against that but I'm warming up to the idea. It is really just a frustration that with a $100 licesne, people still have a hard time paying for a license and I want to try and understand why. I dont think that its because we have bad users but that we have to keep demontsrating value.
@Miklos Marton I agree ULP can get better but I would look to something like python.
like expose the command line interpreter via a TCP server
Mmm, yes. Python can do anything.
I dont think ULP is a long-term strategy however I have also considered just maintaining a shadow database (something like an SQLiite) with the design data and supporting binding to any language that could "speak sql"
well
if we take a look on the ULP concept
@technolomaniac I would pay 50€ instead of the current 12€ a month for Eagle at work if it would have the exact same license model as Fusion
there is an existing solution for python:
Swoop: A Python Library for Eagle PCB Design Files - Swoop IR 0.3 documentation
Swoop is a library of Python objects for representing and manipulating Cadsoft Eagle board, schematic, and library files used in designing printed circuit boards (PCBs). It parses an input Eagle file, creates a internal representation data structure that represents the file's contents, provides accessors and mutators to query, read, and modify those contents, and generates valid Eagle files as output.
that would take some cleverness to enable things in a way that doesn't invalidate the data (command stomping) but it could be super cool
yah, I saw this...this is pretty awesome!
but
the problem with this
@technolomaniac I think for me, for hobby projects, I'd rather battle KiCad than pay the $100 for EAGLE. So perhaps its not the price that is the issue, its my understanding of why $100 for EAGLE is better than my free KiCad, perhaps because of how EAGLE saves me time? I know that with hobby projects, money is important but time is premium. $100 isn
Oops
@Miklos Marton Heh, somewhat outdated description.
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