Lutetium
@Prof. Fartsparkle not yet. this is in the cards. personally I would throw the whole renderer out and start again and well...I make that call. so yes, we will do that.
oh that makes me very happy
@Rob Speed that's in the plan, for sure.
@technolomaniac Awesome. It's the little things.
can't wait for the day Eagle becomes "Fusion PCB"
@Josh Lloyd so we are adding sharing of libs and sharing of 3d models in the next release...which is also why we did a server deployment yesterday.
I have to work with mCAD people very closesly at work when I do PCBs, a better integration that we have right now would make the whole workflow so much easier
*than
I like Electron but that was only after people turned my down for my first choice of names.
@Prof. Fartsparkle I agree this process can suck
heh
I mean the current integration is already tremendously helpful but the constant syncing issues are a bit of a pain
I want to get to a point that you can select a face and say 'build me a board from this' and maintain the associativity...we already do this but it's not as elegant as it could be.
@technolomaniac Currently we check all of this stuff in to Git, its not the best place for large binary blobs but it does track versions. Is there a nice way to move from this workflow in to EAGLE and F360? Presumably we keep it all cloud synced and version it on the cloud?
and me having to boot into a VM to check how it looks in Fusion....
@technolomaniac How easy or hard is to crack EAGLE and run it for free, and what kind of protection are you using ?
lol
gret question
:D
@Aleksandar Bilanovic I'm laughing.
I mean unless you make huge boards its free anyways..
@technolomaniac what about being able to send a fusion sketch into eagle as a layer (ie outline or dimension) so drill holes and things on the pcb can be pulled from fusion rather than having to place them in eagle and tweak the fusion model around
@Prof. Fartsparkle or using more than 2 layers lol
@Josh Lloyd well nothing eagle uses is binary...so that part is all pretty easy (its just XML). the fusion file is just a zip. rename it and unpack and you have all of the stuff inside. we dont hide that stuff much but when you connect to the cloud, you want compression or guys like Bilke's infrastructure will be way too slow.
@stansanders I would prefer if all of the board outline definition was fusion sketch based.
but that brings me to my other question @technolomaniac will you do a simplified license model for Eagle, similar to how Fusion 360 has done it now?
Meaning, all features for free for non profit work and a medium prized license with all features for commercial work
@Aleksandar Bilanovic if you need to crack eagle, you need to consider another occupation,
Got em.
Zing
I've never paid a penny for EAGLE, but I'm also making itty-bitty boards.
@technolomaniac So the sharing of libs and sharing of models functionality, the new functionality. Is that intended for Cloud sync at your end?
with less 2 layers max, right?
@Prof. Fartsparkle so I would say that the target for me is to really get the cost to where there's never a discussion about starting to use the tool and the decisions come when you start making money...at which point, we should plan to win.
I think that's a thing which shouldn't be restricted so much. 4 layers should be free for everyone
@Josh Lloyd yes. that is coming.
totally, though currently open source work with Eagle is a bit hard because you are always constrained in what you do, to do more involved open source work I would have to turn to KiCad atm
Does AUTOCAD LT have a free license for small 2D drawings?
@Jan I agree. I do 4 layers on almost every board because I like my power and ground pours and the lower noise and better heat distribution that gives me.
@technolomaniac Are there any plans to provide some more sophisticated automation method to the EAGLE other than the current ULPs?
ULPs just PITA a lot of times
I am thinking about doing something very imple
@Jan I used to be against that but I'm warming up to the idea. It is really just a frustration that with a $100 licesne, people still have a hard time paying for a license and I want to try and understand why. I dont think that its because we have bad users but that we have to keep demontsrating value.
@Miklos Marton I agree ULP can get better but I would look to something like python.
like expose the command line interpreter via a TCP server
Mmm, yes. Python can do anything.
I dont think ULP is a long-term strategy however I have also considered just maintaining a shadow database (something like an SQLiite) with the design data and supporting binding to any language that could "speak sql"
well
if we take a look on the ULP concept
@technolomaniac I would pay 50€ instead of the current 12€ a month for Eagle at work if it would have the exact same license model as Fusion
there is an existing solution for python:
Swoop: A Python Library for Eagle PCB Design Files - Swoop IR 0.3 documentation
Swoop is a library of Python objects for representing and manipulating Cadsoft Eagle board, schematic, and library files used in designing printed circuit boards (PCBs). It parses an input Eagle file, creates a internal representation data structure that represents the file's contents, provides accessors and mutators to query, read, and modify those contents, and generates valid Eagle files as output.
that would take some cleverness to enable things in a way that doesn't invalidate the data (command stomping) but it could be super cool
yah, I saw this...this is pretty awesome!
but
the problem with this
@technolomaniac I think for me, for hobby projects, I'd rather battle KiCad than pay the $100 for EAGLE. So perhaps its not the price that is the issue, its my understanding of why $100 for EAGLE is better than my free KiCad, perhaps because of how EAGLE saves me time? I know that with hobby projects, money is important but time is premium. $100 isn
Oops
@Miklos Marton Heh, somewhat outdated description.
*$100 isn't much if I understand WHY Eagle is worth the price
but I want to just expose the eagle command queue in python and a nice set of APIs
well I would not stick to python
@Josh Lloyd well and I think that's the crux of it...we have to communicate value. that is always a tricky thing to get across. as soon as you start talking about money, people shut down.
just expose the command interpreter in some standard way
and provide commands for accessing the ULPs builtin variables
well it's actually all exposed thru the command line already
okay
but I mean its hard to communicate that if you got such a crazy tool like Fusion for free for hobbyists, you gotta pay for Eagle which I think does seem a lot less involved than Fusion to most users
so you can build apps around eagle via commabnd line
sure, but it would be much better if I could do it while the EAGLE is running
I would have never learned and used Fusion if it wasnt completely free for my hobby projects
@Prof. Fartsparkle I'm still surprised that when I open F360 it doesn't ask me to renew my subscription. I think, shit - did I crack this? No no, its just that its free for me because I don't use it professionally.
hmm, I did some commission work in the past, and I've been thinking of doing a commission in exchange for an Eagle and Autocad license (assuming I can find clients that are willing to respect the phrase "do not touch this for any reason without consulting me or another engineer first"). Have you seen a lot of that kind of quid-pro-quo around your paid prioducts?
and now I got myself a licsense to use it at work
I have actually and I used to ask for licenses whenever I used to contract...esp for any wireless work. bec asue the cost of those tools is so hi, I needed someone to subsidize them.
@Prof. Fartsparkle Isn't the "free for hobbyist" subscription for Fusion 360 only available for one year, after which time you have to purchase the Fusion subscription?
there is no time limit on it, at least not the last time I looked. There is only a limit on how much money you make.
I definitely like that model better, since I'm not using any of these tools for commercial work. :)
@Mvrk2019 that's not correct...we just invalidate the license so you have to re-up
and that's to prevent folks from drifting into commerical work using a free license.
^ Good move
hmm, since I regularly find the line between "pro bono" and "pro boned", I wonder if you can add money lost to that number?
which is absolutey valid
@technolomaniac Yeah, it's a sensible limitation. You could even do it monthly and it wouldn't bug me.
the expecation there is that we want you to use it but just let us know that you're still a free user
@technolomaniac Can you clarify that? Is the requirement to pay for a Fusion 360 subscription based solely on whether you're making money with it?
so what keeps you from adopting this model for Eagle?
did you guys check this out yet?
this is just a little ecad-drool-reel
that is coming.
next release.
oh lovely
*drools*
oooh neat!
/me patiently waits for the image to load
looks nice. please add to KiCAD 6 as well
:)
Hah
LOL
I just finished downloading KiCad 5, don't do another major update soon.
it's already there, just python script it
so the nice things there are patterning of vias, the ability to split around objects, etc.
I program for a living, I want to not be coding in CAD.
quiting programming worked for me
yeah, with software I like it "working" as well
@Josh Lloyd So no OpenSCAD for you, eh?
@Rob Speed I've used it, I do not enjoy it.
Josh Lloyd12:43 PM
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