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Need help with RES60 / РЭС60 relays

A project log for YGREC8

A byte-wide stripped-down version of the YGREC16 architecture

Yann Guidon / YGDESYann Guidon / YGDES 09/04/2019 at 23:3517 Comments

At the start of 2019, I found a very interesting item on @qro_team 's eBay store : a single box of 40 low-voltage РЭС60 relays. I wish there were more !

It's the real deal : it's DPDT (unlike the РЭС15 which is only SPDT), it's very small (great for density) and the version I have can turn on at around 2.5V at half the current of the РЭС15.

The DPDT part is very important for several circuits, for example the incrementer for PC and the ALU. But today I focus on other less visible parts : the bit sense circuits for the memory arrays. The DRAM uses capacitors that will discharge in the coil and the lower current increases the reliability of the whole system (less sensitive to current leaks in the capacitors). The instruction PROM (on which I work at the moment) also benefits from a lower current because each line drives 16 bits and the aggregate current is then handled by a single relay... So if a current of 10mA is enough to trip one line sensor, the worst case scenario for the main driver is 160mA, which is within the tolerance of the РЭС15. It remains to be seen how long it remains reliable but this is another debate. I could make the "single point of failure" easy to replace.

The РЭС60 I have are sold as "6 to 8V" with a coil that measures about 66 ohms. It's a -02 type (?) and all the others I find on eBay have a much higher voltage : 18V, 23V, 27V, 34V... They would certainly have a lower driving current but the voltage swing is not practical. I could try my luck if there are "12V" versions but I need another box because the 40 pieces I have at the moment is barely enough for the various circuits that require it... Who could help me ? @Artem Kashkanov  ? @[skaarj] ? ...


According to this datasheet (and many others found online),

there must be a marking error on my box because the -02 is rated at 270 ohms and I measured coils in the 65 ohms range... but apparently I need a 12V version, with -02 or -08 type (I still can't get the difference).

I might have found -04 (lower voltage) that would be useful in the ALU so my -03 would be used as sensors, probably using pre-biasing, unless there is some magic reed relay that could save the circuit ? (Artem ? ;-) )


Correction : the box is marked "00.02" so according to the references I have found, it should be a 23-34V version. Measurements disagree... I don't know what happened or if the parts were repackaged but anyway, I have them :-D

Discussions

Artem Kashkanov wrote 09/05/2019 at 19:22 point

Hmmm.. I don't see any RES60 in my collection... but have 200+ pcs of RES55 with 12V rate  :)  Maybe it would be Ok for you?

'55' is not far from '60' :D

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Yann Guidon / YGDES wrote 09/05/2019 at 19:50 point

the number is near, yes ;-) but did you measure the current and voltage in the coil, where the contact closes and opens ?
the trip point seems to be around 15 or 20mA but measurements are better...

I would pre-bias at maybe 5mA and the data lines would only need a "kick" of 10mA to make a '1' bit.
Did you try this ?

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Artem Kashkanov wrote 09/08/2019 at 14:03 point

Reed relays are on so good for your "bias" methodology - they switched on when voltage is near nominal value (e.g. 4V for 5V-rated relays), but can be switched off with very low voltage - e.g. 1-2V for 5V rated relays.

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Yann Guidon / YGDES wrote 09/08/2019 at 14:15 point

it's good to know...

I'll have to try :-P

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Yann Guidon / YGDES wrote 09/08/2019 at 19:32 point

hmmm such a HIGH hysteresis is really interesting to implement latches ;-)

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Yann Guidon / YGDES wrote 09/05/2019 at 21:24 point

An eBay seller sent me this link : http://www.volt-220.com/images/book/sprav_rele.pdf

it's totally in Russian and I don't get much, there is way too much to read :-/

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Artem Kashkanov wrote 09/08/2019 at 14:01 point

This book is similar to my paper one, but without glossary.

But for RES60 there are the same data it tables as in attached datasheet.

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Yann Guidon / YGDES wrote 09/10/2019 at 01:43 point

@Artem Kashkanov there seems to be a LOT of additional commentaries, probably design advices, but I can't make sense of it...

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Artem Kashkanov wrote 09/10/2019 at 07:09 point

Try this one:

http://publ.lib.ru/ARCHIVES/I/IGLOVSKIY_Ivan_Grigor'evich/Iglovskiy_I.G..._Spravochnik_po_slabotochnym_elektricheskim_rele.(1990).[djv-fax].zip

It's original scan and it looks more understandable than the book under your link.

It has Glossary on the end of the book so you can easily find any relay you want.

There is no special advices in this book - only just classification, types descriptions and datasheet for relays.

RES60 datasheet starts from p.95. If you have any questions about translation - just ask :)

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Yann Guidon / YGDES wrote 09/10/2019 at 10:30 point

Thank you @Artem Kashkanov  !

The link seems to be damaged though :-/

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Artem Kashkanov wrote 09/10/2019 at 10:41 point

Look like hackaday engine doesn't support links with many dots... Just copy the whole link manually 

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[skaarj] wrote 09/05/2019 at 05:45 point

There are more modern decent relays out there - they were used in land-line telephone communications - for example the DSY relay series for 5V or 12V. Smaller, they fit into an 16-pin IC socket. I will be back with two relay types for you to check. Unfortunately at the moment I have no access to any source of recycled relays...

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Yann Guidon / YGDES wrote 09/05/2019 at 09:24 point

I'm happy you're here, skaarj !

the RES60 is not longer than DIP8, and about half as wide, so size and density are fine for me :-)

I'm seeking "new old stock" because I expect to exercise them for many millions of cycles ;-)

I believe that reed relays are quite fast AND sensitive (which are required for the data sense) but I wonder about their longevity if they have to switch 50mA all the time...

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[skaarj] wrote 09/05/2019 at 10:29 point

Try these and see which one works for your project - coil resistance, contact power rating, number of cycles: 

DS2Y-S-DC12V (12VDC) - datasheet here:  https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/315/mech_eng_ds2y-1299327.pdf

Axicom D2N series:  https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=showdoc&DocId=Specification+Or+Standard%7F108-98007%7FL%7Fpdf%7FEnglish%7FENG_SS_108-98007_L.pdf%7F8-1393792-8

Omron G6B series: https://omronfs.omron.com/en_US/ecb/products/pdf/en-g6b.pdf

First one can still be found at Mouser, the others are more common. 
If you wish for them to be reliable, don't go into dark corners of NOS because you will end like me with my tape drive emulator:  90% time for debug, 10% time for work.

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Yann Guidon / YGDES wrote 09/05/2019 at 11:04 point

The first link : DS2Y-S-DC12V needs a 150mW signal and I need to reduce this as much as possible. It can switch about 2A so it's for "power" applications, while I am more looking for a "signal" application...


Same for G6B : "This Relay is a Power Relay which is suitable for power load switching. Do not use the G6B for signal purposes such as micro load switching under 10 mA."

The quest is getting very interesting :-D

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[skaarj] wrote 09/05/2019 at 12:02 point

OK then I will ask for RES60 variants RS4.569.435-03.01, RS4.569.435-03.02,  RS4.569.435-08.01 or RS4.569.435-08.02  (see http://russian-electronics.com/products/switching-devices/:res-60-rs45694350001 ).  All of these work with coil voltage between 5 and 8V, and switching current is big. There is no plan (yet) to go visit whatever dumpsters I have access too,  a lot of work to be done and earn some cash to allow me to go hunt for soviet relics. 

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Yann Guidon / YGDES wrote 09/05/2019 at 12:11 point

Thanks for the link, now I see the differences and subtleties of the reference numbers :-)

And good luck for your projects !!!

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