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The Peoples Permacomputer

A computer designed to survive a societal collapse.

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# The People's Permacomputer Project The People's Permacomputer (from here on known as "the people's computer", or "the permacomputer") is a project dedicated to resourcing the specification, and then construction of a 'permacomputer'.

MAIN GIT REPOSITORY: https://git.sr.ht/~vidak/peoples-permacomputer/

*

The People's Permacomputer Project

The People's Permacomputer (henceforth known as "the people's computer", or "the permacomputer") is a project dedicated to resourcing the specification, and then construction of a 'permacomputer'.

Who?

"The Committee"

Yes you can join the committee.

What is a permacomputer?

A permacomputer is a computer which attempts to embody the virtues of permacomputing.

Foundationally, permacomputing itself is set of community practices and traditions which shares a set of social and ecological values inspired by the 70s land management and settlement design of permaculture.

What is the point of this project?

There are many different dialectical approaches to making an introduction to the people's permacomputer. One thought experiment that has proved especially popular and easy to grasp sums up the mindset behind which we are functioning:

Industrial society has collapsed. All semiconductor fabrication has ceased, society-wide electrification is no longer guaranteed. There is no longer any internet. Computing as it was once known in the early 21st century is impossible. You need a computer for a task. What do you do?

This project is a response to the challenge posed by the above problem. The purpose of this project is to design and then construct computers that will be able to survive a societal collapse.

A permacomputer for the people involves two radically differing criteria of success, yet these requirements, paradoxically, cannot be separated from one another--fulfilling both these two criteria is required for a successful project.

The first criterion is a computer which is well-engineered. The computer offered up by this project aim to be easy to grasp upon immediate interaction, and have a profound, transformational effect on the power of the user's capacity for rational and critical thought.

Permacomputers must also be rugged and durable. An inoperable computer is otherwise known in hacker circles as a "brick". The length of time the project determined adequate for the "life span" of a permacomputer is a duration far in excess of contemporary standards. The intention behind this project's design was to allow communities of people to possess and maintain a computer collectively.

It is difficult to provide an accurate estimate for exactly how many years the life cycle of a permacomputer design can be. This project suggests a life span beyond that of a human individual.

Despite this concern, this project assumes that are threats outside the domain of engineering to the permacomputer, which would otherwise possess indefinite operation:

The second criterion is to ensure that there continues to be a human cultural tradition of electronic computing, or that this tradition may be able to be rediscovered or reconstructed. The project does not want to merely effect an engineering feat, but also transmit the cultural memory of electronic digital computing into the future.

It is hoped that, should the project succeed, humanity will be able to be saved from the grueling tedium of many forms of onerous economic work. Without a computer, these necessary social roles would involve either great effort, or be personally unfulfilling or degrading; shameful.

Mutual exclusion

There are many influential projects which attempt to address the same set of values driving the people's permacomputer project. Some worthy of note can be listed in no particular order:

All of these projects are concerned with some subset of the principles the permacomputer project holds dear. Collapse OS is software that aims to be system agnostic, and assumes the previous acquisition of some supported hardware.

The uxn ecosystem is rich and continues to flourish. This project shares much with our own concerns for sustainability and...

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  • 1 × R6502 Microprocessors, Microcontrollers, DSPs / Microprocessors (MPUs)
  • 1 × AT28C256 Memory ICs / EEPROMs
  • 1 × 61256 Memory ICs / Static RAM (SRAM)
  • 1 × R6522 Microprocessors, Microcontrollers, DSPs / IO Controllers
  • 1 × SN74LS00 Electronic Components / Misc. Electronic Components

  • Project Phase Four Results

    Blair Vidakovich09/26/2025 at 11:20 0 comments

    Phase 4

    Recap

    Big exploration into BASIC, and Tiny BASIC.

    The permacomputer needed some sort of user operating environment–a human-computer interface.

    The project is opting for the distribution of the software environment in paradigmatic microcomputer BASIC.

    The various utilities and tools will be printed as code listings.

    The archival quality of paper is many orders of magnitude better than hard disks, CD-ROMs, or other digital mediums.

    https://vidakovich.itch.io/wrdprobas

    https://vidakovich.itch.io/editbas

    Please see Phase 3 Results for all transcription links.

    ENDOXA: HISTORICAL TEXT EDITORS

    Filename Year Platform Transcription status Lines of code Code size
    LED.BAS 1981 CBM PET, APPLE II COMPLETE < 300 ~ 7 KB
    WRDPRO.BAS 1977 GE 635 (Dartmouth) COMPLETE ~ 350 ~ 17 KB
    EDITYPE.BAS 1983 VIC-20 COMPLETE ~ 150 ~ 5 KB
    SCRIPTOR.BAS 1983 ATARI 8-BIT STARTED NOT FINISHED
    EDIT.BAS 1977 ALTAIR 8K COMPLETE ~ 100 ~ 5 KB

    Stefan’s BASIC

    This BASIC implementation targets almost all of the cheap hobbyist micro-controller boards that exist.

    However, its file handling routines are, like all BASICs, idiosyncratic.

    Below is reproduced the tutorial from the core repository.

    The following outputs to text file two columns, the second being squares of the first.

    10 REM "Simple FILE I/O demo"
    20 REM ""
    30 N=4
    40 DIM A$(80)
    100 PRINT "Write squares to file"
    110 OPEN "daten.txt",1
    120 FOR I=1 TO N
    130 PRINT I, I*I
    140 PRINT &16, I
    150 PRINT &16, I*I
    160 NEXT I
    170 CLOSE 1

    The following prints the numbers from file as the integer data type.

    200 PRINT "Read data as numbers"  
    210 OPEN "daten.txt"
    220 FOR I=1 TO N
    230 INPUT &16, A
    240 INPUT &16, B
    250 PRINT "Read "; A; "^2="; B
    260 NEXT
    270 CLOSE 0

    The following reads the file as strings. Note the idiosyncratic file error handling compared to the historical BASICs.
    Most similar to Microsoft BASIC.

    300 PRINT "Read data as strings, use EOF status"
    310 @S=0
    320 OPEN "daten.txt"
    330 IF @S<>0 THEN PRINT "OPEN failed" : END
    340 FOR I
    350 INPUT &16, A$
    360 IF @S=-1 THEN BREAK 
    370 PRINT "Line",I,"string '";A$; "' Status = " @S
    380 NEXT
    390 CLOSE 0
    400 PRINT I, "lines read"
    410 PRINT "Status =", @S 

    The above read the file as lines of strings.

    The below reads every number digit as a character only.

    500 PRINT "Read Character by Character use EOF status"
    510 @S=0
    520 OPEN "daten.txt"
    530 IF @S<>0 THEN PRINT "OPEN failed" : END
    540 FOR I=1
    550 GET &16, A
    560 PRINT "Character ";I;" :",A
    570 IF A=-1 THEN BREAK
    580 NEXT
    590 PRINT I, "characters read"
    600 PRINT "Status =", @S
    610 CLOSE 0
    700 END 

    Actual new results

    Quite a bit to cover here too.

    @ ~AUD$25 the Chinese LILYGO TTGO comes completely constructed, fully supporting Stefan’s BASIC, unbeatable in terms of accessiblity.

    Hardware

    Complete implementation, including support for Stefan’s BASIC

    LILYGO® TTGO VGA VGA32 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33041602035.html
    BASIC on the Raspberry Pi Pico & Pico 2 with VGA/HDMI and PS2/USB support https://geoffg.net/picomitevga.html

    Serial output only. No Video Display Processor.

    Propeller ANSI / VT-100 Terminal https://github.com/maccasoft/propeller-vt100-terminal
    VGA Serial Terminal for RC2014 OSH Park https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/Utghpucg
    Legacy Pixels ASCII VT 100 Compatible Terminal Emulator RS232 Serial https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/225010233671
    minimalist only Longan Nano RISC-V GD32VF103CBT6 MCU Development Board LITE 0.96 inch TFT HD IPS display 80*160 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000368549335.html
    piccoloBASIC https://github.com/garyexplains/piccoloBASIC
    https://www.hackster.io/news/gary-sims-piccolobasic-is-a-minimalist-programming-language-for-the-raspberry-pi-pico-rp2040-3a53ec2fc684
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MiT-29I_jI

    Software

    Tiny BASIC

    New discoveries about Tiny BASIC.

    http://www.ittybittycomputers.com/IttyBitty/TinyBasic/TBEK.txt

    https://troypress.com/the-tiny-basic-interpretive-language-il-and-onions/...

    Read more »

  • Project phase two results

    Blair Vidakovich06/26/2025 at 20:37 5 comments

    #Project phase two results

    #A ** Computer module. GITHUB REPO: USER AUDMONT

    This proof-of-concept design is perfect for an ultra-simple and easily-constructed computer.


    This is the memory map:

    Address - Component
    $0000-$3FFF - RAM (16KB)
    $4200-$4203 - ACIA
    $6000-$600F - VIA
    $8000-$FFFF - ROM (32KB)
    

    The benefits of this design are many:

    • It uses a 6502, not the relatively exotic 6800
    • Will easily run FORTH and BASIC
    • Much easier and simpler memory addressing logic
    • Quite a luxurious amount of ROM, and this presents a good opportunity to pack it full of interesting things, such as FORTH words, BASIC variants with larger ROM footprints...
    • Possesses serial through the ACIA chip

    #B ** Video display processor.

    The first phase of the project found that it was desirable to include some form of visual output in the permacomputer.

    It was decided not to include any display into the design of the permacomputer itself, and instead require the user to provide their own television.

    Reasons for reaching this decision are that

    1. it is expected that televisions will be possible to salvage in a hypothetical societal collapse;
    2. given that the video standard chosen by the project is analogue composite video, this simple form of signal should have some hope of being able to reverse engineered should cultural knowledge around computing significantly degenerate.

    The second phase builds on the results of the first. The work done in the second phase concluded that it was prohibitively expensive and cognitively overwhelming to expect the visual display capabilities of the permacomputer to conform to video designs contemporary with the 1970s and 1980s.

    #MCU Video display.

    The project found a solution to composite video output in small microcontrollers. The idea is not to directly integrate video into the 8 bit computer design, but use a cheap microcontroller as a video terminal, and have the computer use its ACIA chip to communicate with it via serial.

    Using microcontrollers does not contradict the spirit of permacomputing. It radically reduces the chip count of the design, allowing the project to proceed faster towards a proof-of-concept. Using microcontrollers removes the need to sacrifice system memory for VRAM. it also makes the permacomputer modular--if one part of the system fails, you can still use the other half.

    READ MORE

    #MCU Selection. "The Grant Searle".

    #SCHEMATIC FOR BOTH PROJECTS

    This consists of two modules and when used together produces a generic ANSI terminal (also supporting graphics) using a TTL compatible serial interface running at 115200 baud (can be changed in software) so can be used for any computer project that has a serial I/O and needs a keyboard and display.

    This uses an ATmega88 (or 168 pr 328) for the keyboard and serial buffer and an ATmega328 for the display processor.\ Since the display is independent of the host (eg Z80) processor, the host has no processing overhead so when connected to some other host.

    The circuit is in two distinct parts, as shown below. If only a display is needed then only the circuit to the left side of the line is needed.

    (NOT SHOWING DEFAULT FONT CONFIGURATION RESISTORS - SEE BELOW)

    Note 1: Not all power supply pins are not shown. These must be connected to the appropriate power rail.
    Note 2: Include R3 for NTSC display only, otherwise do not make any connection between PD7 and ground.
    Note 3: Include R6 and also connect PB1 on the interface to ground for 4-bit data ONLY. Do not connect any green wires when using the 4-bit interface.
    Note 4: Include R7 and also connect PB2 on the interface to ground for two-wire ONLY. Do not connect any red or green wires.
    Note 5: If a specific display start-up configuration is always used, the code can be altered (see below) and all configuration resistors omitted.
    Note 6: Default font will be 80 char, single-height, bold. To change it, pull the following display lines low with 10K resistors:
    Pin 6 (PD4) - 40...

    Read more »

  • Project Refresh June 2025

    Blair Vidakovich06/26/2025 at 19:34 0 comments

    Project Refresh

    BASIC implementations packaged by debian 12:

    https://wiki.debian.org/ProgrammingLanguage#BASIC

    • FreeBasic (libfreebasic already packaged, fbc not yet. Very Microsoft QBasic compatible (graphics))
    • brandy (BBC BASIC)
    • bwbasic (Bywater BASIC)
    • Scriba
    • pcbasic (GW-BASIC compatible basic interpreter)
    • yabasic (mdhughes recommends)
    • qb64
    • https://github.com/mist64/cbmbasic
    • BBC and Commodore BASIC
    • "Minimal BASIC"

    "My biggest concern"

    my biggest concern for a long time has been computer literacy--there is something magnetic to me about how simple BASIC is.

    i have sat down with a few people over the years. they came to me complaining about how hard python or scratch was, and i installed VICE emulator on their computer. within minutes of writing their first joke GOTO or INPUT program, i have had people vibrating in their seats with excitement--"wow, i can program!!"

    that feeling is something i want to replicate and multiply among people, giving people "software freedom" through a sense of mastery and success.

  • Project Phase 2

    Blair Vidakovich11/28/2024 at 18:00 0 comments

    Please refer to the following homebrew projects:

    1. https://github.com/adumont/hb6502
    2. https://awsh.org/homebrew-6502-computer-part-1/
    3. https://www.grappendorf.net/projects/6502-home-computer/#table-of-contents
    4. https://pmig96.wordpress.com/2020/07/15/mc6847-test-circuit/

    Project Phase #2:

    • build the first MC6847 video display 'warmup' computer.
      • i have found three projects based on the 6502 which make use of the MC6847 and have published their schematics. so far so good. when the parts arrive i have to trust my breadboards and little wires are of a sufficient quality as not to bounce and ring, we're dealing with sub-1 MHz TTL-level digital signals so.... maybe my dodgy tools and components will be good enough.
    • build the first permacomputer prototype
      • the next step after i have honed my practicals skills on a simpler task is this: construct a custom video display for the permacomputer, based on the information contained in don lancaster's cheap video cookbook or here if you wanna support the internet archive?
      • the reason for using custom logic for the display is the limited number of columns the MC6847--it is my hope to have 40 columns, not a mere 32. i wish i could say more, but the short story is this: using EEPROMs in place of discrete logic is the ticket to having a simple design.

  • Receiving the Parts -- First Mail Package

    Blair Vidakovich03/18/2024 at 06:16 0 comments

    MC6800

    the CPU. the motorola MC6800. once quite popular, but somehow overlooked a little, imho, with the retro computing revivial of the 2010s. it runs lots of operating systems, like CP/M, FLEX, and more.

    this is the original chip that the 6502 team decided to try and radically simplify with their design. they were right. the 6502 reigned supreme.

    MC6875

    this is the 6800's external clocking logic. if you csn get one, your life will be easy. it will do all the clocking really well. this is an exotic chip now, however. ngl, at the price i got this, i will be hoarding them.

    this fits into the main cpu subcircuitry. we just need to get some passive components and then a 4 MHz crystal.

    -

    DMA Video Logic

    -


    these two lil buddies are the CD4014, and CD4040, respectively.

    they do the main clocking and signalling for the composite out video.

    the 4014 is a parallel in serial out shift register or buffer register. then the 4040 is a binary counter. you get the idea.

    please refer to the DREAM6800 schematics.

    these chips allow us to do DMA graphics @ 64 columns by 32 rows as a dot matrix.

    256 bytes of RAM in the DREAM's memory map are simply pixels in RAM

    Miscellaneous

    -

    1. a now very exotic LM566. not a 555 it's a really interesting VCO. voltage controlled oscillator. not surprising, it's from the digital audio in ciruitry. HAM lovers watch this space.

    2. some glue logic: 74ls123 and 74ls40.

    3. 10 x LM741s, lil cuties. they're ancient now.

    4. the power ICs.

  • Sourcing Parts

    Blair Vidakovich03/07/2024 at 21:52 0 comments

    Please find below a suggested method for sourcing the parts for a small run of the device:

    ;----------------
    ; Integrated Circuits
    ;----------------
    
    | U1         	MC6800		https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004479143065.html
          
    | U2         	2716		*** AT28C256 ALREADY ON HAND
            
    | U3,U4		6116		*** UT6264CPC-70LL ALREADY ON HAND
           
    | U5,U6         74LS367		https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/392646329463
         
    | U7         	CD4014		https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006007339909.html
          
    | U8         	MC6875		https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000045848422.html
         
    | U9         	MC6821		*** MOS6522 ALREADY ON HAND
         
    | U10        	74LS10		https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/124270171410
          
    | U11,U17	74LS04		https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/334703255973
          
    | U12        	74LS08		https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/234861194857
          
    | U13        	CD4040		https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006389797996.html
          
    | U14,U15	74LS93		https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/234860939045
               
    | U16        	74LS20		https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/392646331384
          
    | U18        	74LS11		https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/234868819629
          
    | U19        	74LS123		https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005071495170.html
         
    | U20        	7440		https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005805134654.html
            
    | U21        	74LS74		https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/234862799526
          
    | U22        	74121		*** ALREADY ON HAND
           
    | U23        	LM741		https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006103890733.html
           
    | U24        	NE566		https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006022531540.html
           
    | U25        	74LS138		https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/184350879253
         
    | U26        	LM2576-5.0	https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005877381901.html
      
    | U27        	LT1054		https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005658624513.html
    

  • Project Concept Formalisation

    Blair Vidakovich03/02/2024 at 02:16 0 comments

    Who?

    "The Committee"

    Yes you can join the committee.

    What is a permacomputer?

    A permacomputer is a computer which attempts to embody the virtues of permacomputing.

    Foundationally, permacomputing itself is set of community practices and traditions which shares a set of social and ecological values inspired by the 70s land management and settlement design of permaculture.

    What is the point of this project?

    The people's permacomputer project is an attempt to physically realise a permacomputer.

    This will involve not just the production of an actual model permacomputer, but also the development of a list of suggested social and cultural practices around computing that will, it is hoped, assist in the continued human practice of electronic computing.

    There are many different dialectical approaches to making an introduction to the people's permacomputer. One thought experiment that has proved especially popular and easy to grasp sums up the mindset behind which we are functioning:

    Industrial society has collapsed. All semiconductor fabrication has ceased, society-wide electrification is no longer guaranteed. There is no longer any internet. Computing as it was once known in the early 21st century is impossible. You need a computer for a task. What do you do?

    This project is a humble response to the challenge posed by the above problem.

    Adventures in the traditions of computation

    We seem to take it for granted that a computer in everyone's hand just is democratic computing. Indeed, the ubiquity of contemporary computation has been confused for 'democracy'.

    As quickly as we marched towards computing for the masses, we marched just as swiftly away.

    GNU

    There do today however still exist flourishing movements which are worthy of mention--although not exclusive in this honour, much of the GNU movement is to be credited with any sanity being preserved in present-day mass computation.

    Hobbyist computing

    The hobbyist computer movement of the 1970s was rich in ideas, and courageous--sometimes breathtaking--in its efforts to allow the lay person to realise their access to an electronic computer.

    Need we speak of the heterogeneous array of kit computers and their attendant clubs and magazines? Some of mention are entire influential computing platforms in their own right:

    • Altair 8800.
    • Apple I and II.
    • Commodore 64 and the VIC-20.

    From minicomputers to microcomputers

    One may even be able to recount the history of computing before its entry into the mass consciousness. Computer architectures from (now defunct) firms like DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) still carry enormous significance today.

    Much of DEC's fascinating and progressive work culture is imprinted on the fruits of their labour. Two models of computer from DEC in particular, the PDP-8 and the PDP-11, are steeped in the corporation's ethos: "do the right thing".

    Neither of these machines were of much relevance outside the academy and industry, but they represent huge strides forward in human history for the virtues that the people's computer committee see as necessary for permacomputing.

    In particular, the full plans and maintenance manuals for each token computer were accessible alongside each physical device:

    http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp8/

    http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/

    When was the last time the entire structure of a modern smartphone was exposed and made accessible to the user? Indeed, the devices we take for granted today are deliberately obfuscated for the purpose of unchecked economic profit.

    Mutual exclusion

    There are many influential projects which attempt to address the same set of values driving the people's permacomputer project. Some worthy of note can be listed in no particular order:

    All of these projects are concerned with some subset of the principles the permacomputer project holds dear....

    Read more »

  • February 2024 Update

    Blair Vidakovich02/20/2024 at 21:15 0 comments

    In our exploratory research we came upon an australian design from the late 70s which i think would prove highly amenable to the goals of our project.

    http://www.mjbauer.biz/DREAM6800.htm

    Attached is a bill of materials along with other errata from a fellow peer's construction of the DREAM6800 computer in 2019. 

    (see attached PDF)

    I am having difficulty sourcing parts. I laboriously inputted and was able to locate every part on aliexpress, but multiple items from the same vendor would not cause a saving in the postage.

    Does anyone know a more equitable method of sourcing the parts listed in this PDF?

    Much appreciated.

    Blair Vidak.


    Please find reproduced below the schematics for the DREAM6800 computer.

    Power:

    -** Cassette circuitry. Kansas PSK encoding.
    - *** CPU and Clock generation via the Motorola 6875:
    ** Video Display Generator (composite video):

    The keyboard circuitry, implemented by the Motorola PIA:

    Current smoothing capacitors and auxiliary circuit definitions:
    Memory:

    The full listing for the CHIPOS interpreter / monitor program resident in 1K ROM:

    **

  • Video Teleprinter

    Blair Vidakovich05/25/2023 at 13:52 0 comments

    (this is in collaboration with a comrade 'S')

    The People's Permacomputer Project (acronym: P3) is designed to meet a special design case. That is: modern digital civilisation has collapsed. Complex computer hardware is hard to come by, and will not be easy to repair. This hardware project will also attempt to meet a use case scenario: storage upwards of 200 years, and be durable enough to still operate.

    It is my hope this permacomputer will truly be able to last around 500 years with minimal need for maintenance or repair.

    ~The Nipkow Disk Video Teleprinter~

    Please refer here. the hellschreiber is a shortwave radio compatible facsimile device. In other words, the hellschreiber is a type of radio fax machine.

    The principle behind the radio fax is similar to a mechanical televison. Instead of using ink to print onto paper, the television uses a nipkow disk to scan across a flashing light source, such as an LED or fluorescent tube. The flashing light is timed to the position of each of the holes in the nipkow disk, allowing luma pulses to be created, mimicking pixels on an electron-beam CRT.

    ~Construction of the Mechanical Video Teleprinter~

    The first movement of this project is to design a mechanical television. This stage of research and development will be considered a success if an operating 30-scanline nipkow disk television can be built.

    Why? Because video is important for the human-computer interface, and resources will be severely limited in terms of what will be able to provide a standard, as well as modular interface into the digital logic of the P3.

    The mechanical television is a good choice for demonstrating the possibility of video output from a digital computer after the collapse of modern society.

    Please find attached the research material from the Ben Heck show.

    Episode #1


    Episode #2

    Suffice it to say: you construct a 30 line televisor @ 15 FPS with the following materials:

    - a cheap electric drill
    - some vinyl LP records
    - a cheap LED or fast fluorescent light

    This construction is a happy congruence with the processing limitations of the digital computer to which the mechanical TV will be attached. It will only be capable of 30 scan-lines of resolution.

    Please refer to the reference images of what i imagine this mechanical TV will be able to render.

    Up Next Time: Ceramic DIP 8-bit CPUs (:

    http://www.mjbauer.biz/DREAM6800.htm

    https://maggi9295.github.io/projects/dream6800/dream6800.html

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Discussions

Dr. Cockroach wrote 05/25/2023 at 22:24 point

I have always been interested in building a mechanical Nipkow disk display and it makes since to try to adapt it as a basic computer data display.

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Peabody1929 wrote 05/19/2023 at 00:21 point

Contraption

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Ken Yap wrote 05/18/2023 at 22:47 point

Why ceramic packages? Have you explained that somewhere?

  Are you sure? yes | no

Blair Vidakovich wrote 05/25/2023 at 13:56 point

the main explanation is that plastic packages will not withstand extreme temperatures

IIRC, plastic only withstands 0-70C, whereas ceramic will tolerate -50C-125C

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