Alex,

I’ve had a browser tab open to this project for weeks, months and now that the weather is getting cold and dark, it’s inevitable that I’m going to make a set of these for one of my vintage or vintage inspired computers. Do you recommend the Rev2 or the rev1NEO? If it’s the rev1NEO does anywhere have the Gerber’s on file so that you benefit from the purchase of a board or 20?

Also, have you tried to get a board fab place to offer etching and assembly? I was discussing this with the Cosmac ELF group the other day and one of the guys mentioned that some board fab companies will etch and assemble. Again, if that could be arranged so that you get a small royalty for your work, I think it would be pretty cool.

Regardless, I’m keen to try these out. They’re such a nice replica of the original.

Cheers,
Andrew

Always nice to read such positive feedback. Regarding your questions:

Rev2 or Rev1neo: If I remember right Rev uses bigger traces/spacing (6/6mil) to fit osh-patk's deign rules. But the left dot is missing because of this. Rev1 (normal an neo) are using smaller traces (5mil). Rev1neo fixes the error of the normal rev1 but I never made a rev1neo myself. So I would suggest using rev2 if the left dot is not needed.

Gerbers/Board files: I could export gerbers of all Versions if needed and add them to the repository. For rev2 there is also a buy link for single boards from OSH-Park. Just leave another message which you prefer.

Board House / Manufacturing: I did made some experience with whole board manufacturing recently with my #COPXIE - chainable, dual 5*7 tiny led matrix project. PICTIL is just quite old an at that time it was not yet easily available. I would be open to manufacture (and sell) some on my own behalf if there is some demand. But we could also talk about manufacturing from someone else an some form of agreement with me.

I was also recently working on an more Breadboard-friendly spin-off of this you can see a first Image here:
https://twitter.com/tinyledmatrix/status/1317964656691023872

Another thing I probably would do: Create a production optimized version of PICTIL with the learnings from the breadboard Version. And the latest PICTIL is also four years old..some updates could make sense.

By any chance can I get a part number for the resistor array size.  It says 0402.  I checked Mouser and they display EXB-28V102JX.

Got mine from aliexpress. These look similar:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4000534622228.html

The original Listing is not available anymore. But similar arrays should be also available on Mouser, Digikey....

Love it.

For my ttl cpu it would be nice to have a "0.56inch" format version of this for the breadboard.

I quite like that idea. Did a little placement test for just the LEDs:

https://cdn.hackaday.io/images/6330331602335369070.e41e6ee67900109edfa0570f32d7f385

Something like this would fit. Maybe I will finish it (all beside LEDs, is still missing and no routing done). Suggestions for the Pin out? For data inputs pins on one side. VCC, GND, blank on other? Maybe I should also add at lest one dot.

hi, a bit late to the PICTIL I know but, just in case anyone is there... how do you go about programming those 16f526 chips, in circuit? My TL866ii plus doesn’t support it but I guess I could get a suitable programmer for in circuit programming. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Mark

Hi,

back when working on PICTIL I used a PICKIT2 to program them. It was quite handy because all needed pins where connected to one of PICTIL's pins.

Are the LED's multiplexed or directly drive by the PIC processor ?

Nice project! The TIL311 is too rare and runs too hot, and improved replacements like Innocor's INL0397 are even more scarce. If you ever decide to crowdfund a production run, be sure to drop an announcement to the COSMAC ELF Forum. TIL311s are commonly used by builders of these simple computers, and there's sure to be some interest there.

Hi, I just ordered the boards from OSH and had a few questions.

1) Is the component list for the rev2 board up to date? It has the FET as a SOT-23 package and I think that's too big. Is there a full list of the components for Rev2? I think the PIC also needs a package type listed (I'm not familiar with the package types available).

2) Is there a placement layout somewhere? Most of the PCB is ok but the resistors and the cap are hard to tell just from the size and colours.

And thanks for all the hard work!

Hi,

nice to see someone rebuilding this. About your questions:

1) I just updated the parts list on this project page above. The Fet was the old (rev1) one. Also the part number of the PIC specifies a package now. 

2) I uploaded one in the image section. I did not marked all LEDs and the resistor networks. 

Would be nice to see some image when you are ready.

Greetings

What a piece of ART!

Beautiful layout and, in a 'LCD / OLED' world, we need some 'retro' stuff like this.

Thanks

Any updates on a Tindie shop?? I could really use 6 pieces myself in the next week or two.

There are no updates on a Tindie shop. So far my home production would be also to expensive. And I am a bit worried about the legal/tax stuff of semi-professional selling. The easiest way to get some is to build it yourself. I did shred the link to the boards at osh-park above.

Possibly just sell the pre-programmed PIC's? I don't mind a kit, I just have nothing to program a PIC with.

Is a classic TIL311 out of question ? It has drawbacks but it will get you started faster, until you get the enhanced version...

OK, now tell me : where can I buy it ? :-D

For PCB only just sent me your address. A soldered version will take some weeks to produce. There is no "official" way to buy it yet, but I was thinking about Tindie - also just to try it out.

I could use a half-dozen finished PICTIL right now ;-) but I'm sure you could make a little money on eBay and Tindie, since the TIL311 is pretty in demand and the PICTL is a great improvement. Even solving just the power supply/heat issue is amazing, and the absence of resin reduces the problems of aging.

Keep us informed ;-)

Cool ! I just noticed : @al1 now has ownership of the project, that's less pages that I have to manage ;-)

[verified: no design files missing]

Great work @al1 :-)

This is your one-week reminder to upload design documents: https://hackaday.io/project/7813-the-square-inch-project/log/28566-design-deadline

The TIL has more diodes - you will not have the same nice effect with your circuit. I have tried with 0402 diodes, but the effect was not that good, and I had similar diode arrangement to yours.

Hi !
You seem to have experimented with LED displays for your #Small voltmeter :-)
I hope you can share your experience and show the prototypes.

al1's experiments follow his own set of criteria, he wants to preserve the form factor, I am looking for other characteristics and I develop my own version (for the #Discrete YASEP ). Between form, function, features, technologies etc. I think there is a lot to do and learn :-)

I did experiment, and it was a fail. I ended up using those bubble displays, as they are better. For a while I did consider HDSP-2011, but it is more complicated and I ended up using QDSP-6064.

yes the effect will be not the same. I did choose the 0402 leds for easier soldering. In a first idea(https://hackaday.io/page/1315) I used 0201 leds an nearly the same positions as in the original. But 0402 leds are much easier to source and to solder. 

In the next weeks prototype board should arrive. Then we will also see if the effect is good enough.

I am experimenting with an alternate 7-segments system, see https://hackaday.io/project/8121-discrete-yasep/log/27617-hexadecimal-7-segments-display-continued

This uses 4014 LEDs for the segments. I'll see if/how I can make small modules with this system.

The 4014 LEDs do look good. But with these LEDs you have only an classical seven segment display. 

This is true, it doesn't have the same charm. But my initial requirement is to display hexadecimal numbers (low power, low profile and low price are also important) and it does just that :-)
One could add some "style" by adding a 1206 dot at each segment crossing (or 0805?). Then a 3014 format should be used instead of a 4014 LED. brightness consistency would be harder to balance though.

I'd probably make this into a 5x7 matrix display and for your specific application only populate the LEDs necessary for the 7 segments. This way you could use this PCB/module for other projects as well.

nice Idea. I would use seven segment displays as display. Then also less microcontroller outputs are needed. Something similar (with serial interface) I did made here #tiny7

I saw the #tiny7 :-)

7 segments are nice but it has already been done over and over. I have found several projects online when I was looking for bin-to-hex converting chips, "Use a PIC" was a frequent answer...

The 4×7 display has a certain charm and a distinctive look that appeals to me and others :-) For example I have found http://anachrocomputer.blogspot.fr/2015/01/building-hex-led-display-on-pcb.html (though this display uses an expansion chip)

But my need is to replace the actual TIL311 I have, probably dropping the latch strobe input along the way. In fact I hope to reuse this design in #Discrete YASEP

I did some research on small leds (somehow I do really like your idea)  and found this:

http://www.kingbright-europe.de/kingbright-develops-the-smallest-smd-led-package-2/

I think with these leds it could be possible to built a drop in replacement for TIL311

Wow that's TINY...

My plan is different though, I'm looking at 1206 LEDs to make nice square dots.
One of the TIL's shortcomings is the width of the digits, they are separated by a significant gap when soldered side by side.
More LEDs is not a reasonable approach but since the TIL's days, plastic diffusers have progressed and can spread the light in a desired shape.

My plan is to have the 1206 LEDs on the visible side and a SSOP/SOIC chip on the other side, with 4 pins in .1" spacing on the top and bottom.

I should do some routing to try the idea...

If you are interested I summarized my ideas to your project on this page: https://hackaday.io/page/1315 

@al1 your rendering is awesome ! I had something less extreme in mind but I'm impressed and I am glad I gave you inspiration ! I can't wait to see it done for real :-)